Derek Chirnside

Thanks. We have RPL here as a practice (identical to you: shortage of trained preschol eductaors, lets try RPL)

It is very time consuming. I'll check out the website.

-Derek

Coming a bit late here. I have not read all the posts, but I will dip in here.

Bonnie said:
Something that concerns me is the underlying assumptions that I wonder about, that goes something like:

formal learning ->contrived
informal learning ->authentic

Some thinking I see in the Informal vs formal taught courses seems to assume this. Informal learning = authentic I do agree with, almost by definition. But it does not necesarily follow that formal learning does not = authentic.
But it usually does.
Nor does it follow that formal learning = contrived.

As to your next sentence:

What I wonder is if we are trying to shove evidence of informal learning into an evaluative paradigm that is acceptable to formal learning.

I resist your term 'shove' here.

I work in an institution that confers degrees and certificates. There is an accreditation process. Compliance, audits.

My question is "How can be allow in our formal taught courses the benefits and strengths of informal education?"

Realising I have not approached the questions of definitions adequately yet, to rephrase: I am trying to find a way to admit evidence from informal learning into formal taught courses.

But:

1. I have hit the time barrier: it is more costly in terms of staff time - at the moment. I have therefore been looking at tools to help, and to date portfolios hve been a worse cure than the disease.
   
2. I have hit the expertise barrier. We tried a model of getting the assistance of several outside exterts, since the co-ordinating teacher did not have all the experience needed.
3. Learners who are instrumental (ie just tell me what I need to know and give me the test) have not done well.
   Business vs academic environments differ here.
   
4. It does take more time. For the learners. (Yes I know this statement needs unpacking)
   
5. And Einstein was right:

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (apparently a sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)

I described our course approach somewhere here in ScOPE a couple of years ago. Start in our secure home base. Make a meandering trip into the wild west. Come back to home base with what you have learned. Fun. But our College was not ready for it.

-Derek
And Bonnie I haven't event touched on your other good question: what do you do if you have to evaluate the depth/breadth of my understanding?

Violeta, From wikiepdia, on Appreciative Inquiry: 

Appreciative Inquiry was developed by David Cooperrider of Case Western Reserve University. It is now a commonly accepted practice in the evaluation of organizational development strategy and implementation of organizational effectiveness tactics.

Appreciative Inquiry is a particular way of asking questions and envisioning the future that fosters positive relationships and builds on the basic goodness in a person, a situation, or an organization. In so doing, it enhances a system's capacity for collaboration and change. Appreciative Inquiry utilizes a 4-stage process focusing on:

1. DISCOVER: The identification of organizational processes that work well.
2. DREAM: The envisioning of processes that would work well in the future.
3. DESIGN: Planning and prioritizing processes that would work well.
4. DESTINY (or DELIVER): The implementation (execution) of the proposed design.

The basic idea is to build organizations around what works, rather than trying to fix what doesn't. The approach acknowledges the contribution of individuals, in order to increase trust and organizational alignment. The method aims to create meaning by drawing from stories of concrete successes and lends itself to cross-industrial social activities. It can be enjoyable and natural to many managers, who are often sociable people.

Simplistically, this is starting from the good things that exist, rather than some sort of deficit model on what is wrong, missing or lacking.

At to my other comment:
I have several close friends who have worked overseas over the last 25 or so years.  Some of the stories are fascinating.  Very poor and deprived settings by the standards of kids down the road from where I live - yet, overseas, the kids can be happy, vibrant, optimistic.  Some of the kids down the road here - with tons of opportunities - basically lead spoiled, selfish and self destructive lives.

I also hear stories about schools quite low on resources in the classrooms, yet showing  creativity with stuff, ideas and approaches.  elearning can help here . .  [Provided we don't merely import the words pedagogically unsound practices sometimes used in elearning . . .]

Sometimes the problems (social, cultural, resources, history) just seem so big as to be insurmountable.  But in the same set of circumstances people respond quite differently.

Nalin, You are quite right of course.  I do not have much first hand experience.
And:
Your point 1.  OK.
Your point 2.  OK.  Sometimes a problem where I work, but decreasingly so.  We code for 56K modems still. We have another problem with electric fences. 

Your points 3-5: direction, awareness and politics - all are endemic where I come from as well.  I think in my contact with the so called developing countries I see sadly some repetition of mistakes made elsewhere.  On the other hand I see some scenarios where there is a whole different attitude to education: a sense of gratefulness, engagement and value.  (Sometimes missing on my own back door)

I wonder what is UNIQUE to the developing countries scenarios?
I wonder what an Appreciative Inquiry approach to these settings could yield?

Just a quick hand wave - it didn't occur to me to introduce myself until a few moments ago.  I come from Christchurch, New Zealand, (workwise this means I am in a small airless room with no outside windows on the 4th floor of the LAW building at the University of Canterbury, working in course  development and helping out staff when they want it) but I am currently on holiday with a very innovative place: full, free, wireless broadband throughout most of the place.  (But we leave in 2 hours for an 8 hour drive).

My interests include educational design, physics education, online stuff, leadership, community, LMS theory (How to make Moodle do what it was not designed to do), coffee and active learning.

I have just read "The Hackers Ethic" which argues for a new approach to life in terms of work/leisure/play and creativity.

I'm off to China in December, where among other things I will be presenting some workshops on active learning in Physics classes.  (A subject by the way where I think teaching is MOST the same the world over)  (Physics syllabi's are often identical whether in a rain forest or a city) (In general)

I like this particular forum.  The people I find here are quite helpful, go the second mile and posts some stimulating stuff.  I will not be seriously present, just a fringe participant for this topic.  Thanks Nellie.

This arrived in my intray from the POD list this morning:


Interesting.
All us countries have quirks.
I struggle a bit to think about this topic.

-Derek