This is an interesting summary.
I think the model applies much more for a 'normal' online classroom/course, with the emphasis on teaching the course rather than community. The teaching presence grates with me in other contexts - I prefer mutuality, recognition of expertise etc AS WELL, (I'm not totally a post modernist wishy washy) - as a model it therefore may be only partly useful as a lens for what I think you are aspiring to be asa community, and you may feel this yourself in the past part of your post. This model does not do you justice I suspect.
I think we could find several models/lenses. I like the ideas of connections, focus, passion, identity, emergent leadership, care for the practice etc, agan Wenger/lave influenced. Etienne/Snyder: three CoP elements - domain, practice and community. Running out of time at this cafe, I'll respond more later. Nice to be onlne with you guys. - Derek
Derek Chirnside
Posts made by Derek Chirnside
Well, I'm not exactly sure how I ended up in this discussion, but I am here. Did someone subscribe me?? Who is here? Is there a list? has someone got a plan for my life??
This is a response to only part of Bruce's post, and a side issue at that, reflecting one of my current questions:
==I have been racking my brains over the question of how to structure the online spaces to enable the conversations to contnue in a distibuted community. I'm actually assuming some sort of offline contact is occurring. I'm also assming we start with the tools of a forum. I may post on what blogs can contribute later.
Assuming an orientation process to induct and welcome new members, I have come up with 5 ongoing online functions possibly needed in formal taught courses or community spaces to nurture the community side of things. [And I'll return to my take on "What is a learning community?" in another post]
*Where do you put a message about being absent for a while on holiday? [In cafe or admin?]
*Where do you raise a question about learning styles? [Q&A or dialogue]
*Where do you ask for help on a project? [Q&A, events, On-task talk]
I'm trying to convey to the people I work with in some respects it doesn't matter.
At present I like to have some rich calendar type tools which all members have access to to post items. This eliminates the need for a separate Events forum. A separate stories forum can probably be done away with with extra scaffolding.
So this leaves three functions: cafe, Q&A and Reflection/dialogue. [I should say this is a personal preference, I prefer "How do I get a supplementary estimate out of the ministry?" (where the answer may be "Ask John Smith") to be different to "I'm strugglng with Derrida. has anyone got a short reading suggestion on his theory?" (Which may spawn lots of open ended stuff . . .)
This covers off level 1 and level 2 of Bruce's list. If things are an ongoing (volentary) community there may need to be another space to dialogue about the community and it's life - meta speaking about the community and it's purpose and direction if you like. This also is what I take to be in the 'communal' level Bruce mentions.
Bruce mentions 'collaborative' - this is essential as well. I like to see this separated out also.
In terms of both formal taught courses and volentary communities, I think of this as 'events' and/or 'projects'. Another work area.
Bruce has three things at the end of the post:
Firstly, providing some good online tools that scaffold the community processes.
Next: I think the next thing revolves around purpose and meaning, and value to participation. Wenger etc have several short definitions for a Comunity of Practice:
Thirdly: e-leadership. Quality leadership in a distributed environment.
I know, I know. Stephanie said
I've just picked up on the CoP version.
CU. May not be back for a few days, am travelling.
[Bruce, you asked: Do you have an on campus analog to compare to? Not sure I understand this question]
This is a response to only part of Bruce's post, and a side issue at that, reflecting one of my current questions:
From Bruce: In academic communities for class work, exchange is NOT voluntary and may become stilted. This encourages the formation of three levels of communication for academic community purposes. 1) social -- chat rooms, 2) communal -- forums and discussion boards, and 3) collaborative -- productive papers/projects. In business communities of <?> the exchange of information is voluntary and becomes self restricting but can still gain from these three items.
==I have been racking my brains over the question of how to structure the online spaces to enable the conversations to contnue in a distibuted community. I'm actually assuming some sort of offline contact is occurring. I'm also assming we start with the tools of a forum. I may post on what blogs can contribute later.
Assuming an orientation process to induct and welcome new members, I have come up with 5 ongoing online functions possibly needed in formal taught courses or community spaces to nurture the community side of things. [And I'll return to my take on "What is a learning community?" in another post]
- Cafe - the social stuff. "Related, but off task messages" Organising after class social events, selling textbooks, musing about finding time to do the study, sharing of tips for life in the course/community, organising roming at a conference.
- On-task talk - ongoing, unstructured/semistructured dialogue and reflections. These may be spun off into fully fledged discussions sometmes.
- Q&A - questions you need help with, administrative questions.
- Stories - in some settings, I have found this a useful and interestng facet to separate out.
- Events/notices/news - professional events and activities: conference, workshops, community events, calls for papers, journals.
*Where do you put a message about being absent for a while on holiday? [In cafe or admin?]
*Where do you raise a question about learning styles? [Q&A or dialogue]
*Where do you ask for help on a project? [Q&A, events, On-task talk]
I'm trying to convey to the people I work with in some respects it doesn't matter.
At present I like to have some rich calendar type tools which all members have access to to post items. This eliminates the need for a separate Events forum. A separate stories forum can probably be done away with with extra scaffolding.
So this leaves three functions: cafe, Q&A and Reflection/dialogue. [I should say this is a personal preference, I prefer "How do I get a supplementary estimate out of the ministry?" (where the answer may be "Ask John Smith") to be different to "I'm strugglng with Derrida. has anyone got a short reading suggestion on his theory?" (Which may spawn lots of open ended stuff . . .)
This covers off level 1 and level 2 of Bruce's list. If things are an ongoing (volentary) community there may need to be another space to dialogue about the community and it's life - meta speaking about the community and it's purpose and direction if you like. This also is what I take to be in the 'communal' level Bruce mentions.
Bruce mentions 'collaborative' - this is essential as well. I like to see this separated out also.
In terms of both formal taught courses and volentary communities, I think of this as 'events' and/or 'projects'. Another work area.
Bruce has three things at the end of the post:
From Re: Welcome fellow communal learners! by bjones on Tuesday, 25 April 2006 11:16:00 a.m.:
SO... my question is ... how are you approaching the problems of online communities?
1) Motivation
2) Involvement
3) Communication
2) Involvement
3) Communication
Firstly, providing some good online tools that scaffold the community processes.
Next: I think the next thing revolves around purpose and meaning, and value to participation. Wenger etc have several short definitions for a Comunity of Practice:
Communities of Practice are groups of people who share a
concern, a set of problems, or a passion about a topic, and who deepen
their knowledge and expertise in this area by interacting on an ongoing
basis (Wenger et al)
No core concern/passion/problems there is not enough glue. Faltering CoP.Thirdly: e-leadership. Quality leadership in a distributed environment.
I know, I know. Stephanie said
From Welcome fellow communal learners! by stephanie on Sunday, 23 April 2006 8:44:00 p.m.:
Increasingly, we hear references to "learning communities" and it is quickly becoming a catch word with an implicitly assumed definition. Lately, I'm not convinced that "student learning communities" have the same meaning for everyone. Let's work on gathering together our experiences and formulate a collective definition from which we can based our discussions.
Increasingly, we hear references to "learning communities" and it is quickly becoming a catch word with an implicitly assumed definition. Lately, I'm not convinced that "student learning communities" have the same meaning for everyone. Let's work on gathering together our experiences and formulate a collective definition from which we can based our discussions.
I've just picked up on the CoP version.
CU. May not be back for a few days, am travelling.
[Bruce, you asked: Do you have an on campus analog to compare to? Not sure I understand this question]
Hey Paul, thanks from me.
You did well, and I actually learned a lot. Facilitation with metapor, verse and story.
Liz, whom you quote is correct.
I have more to reflect on. As to your comment about product . . Any more thoughts on this. I need to write a piece about collaboration for our future course takers. Metacommunication about what we wish to encourage. If I can find a place, I'll post it.
-Derek
PS. Hot off the press news: I'm interested in considering a job swap next year. Europe, Italy. Greece, US . . Or some onlne teaching I can do wherever. We may take the whole family grape picking in France. :-)
" Skillful facilitation resembles a tap dance,
shuffle, and tango all performed simultaneously to the unique rhythm of
each group. The purpose is simple --- to help the group reach its goals
by utilizing its own experience and strengths."
From a web site I stumbled upon today.You did well, and I actually learned a lot. Facilitation with metapor, verse and story.
Liz, whom you quote is correct.
I have more to reflect on. As to your comment about product . . Any more thoughts on this. I need to write a piece about collaboration for our future course takers. Metacommunication about what we wish to encourage. If I can find a place, I'll post it.-Derek
PS. Hot off the press news: I'm interested in considering a job swap next year. Europe, Italy. Greece, US . . Or some onlne teaching I can do wherever. We may take the whole family grape picking in France. :-)
Hi Nick, I saw your comments on a blog today as well. Thanks for this.
OK, lenses. That's exactly what I'm looking for.
My standard questions: How did YOU feel in these types of assignments? How did you like/dislike them? And where did you learn? Or learn most?
OK, lenses. That's exactly what I'm looking for.
My standard questions: How did YOU feel in these types of assignments? How did you like/dislike them? And where did you learn? Or learn most?
"no success without collaboration" - at least we hope. My summary, a little wordy, a little late, but I had to do it sometme anyway.
Summary of our approach to the Applied e-Teaching and Support qualification
The basic premise that we built our planning on was to work towards a learning community styleThere were two parts to the course.
Below the line was inside a closed course space. This were two set activities after our icebreaking time.
Topic 1: Adult education
Topic 2: Learning design/educational design.
The idea was that by about Week 4 each participant would have planned their own learning trajectoryThey were to opt into activities to meet the learning outcomes. Interactives were spun off as needed: some we set up from a small menu of options ? other emerged from interests amongst the participants: if there was a critical mass of interest, a group could coalesce and have an existence apart from normal course activity, with a huge focus on self determination. We enabled participants to create their own group space with full admin rights/power when and if they wanted to.
Illustration (1)
One participant wanted to set up a national network in her chosen field. Someone else got involved as they were interested in online support of such a community activity. Illustration (2)
[This was where my (personal) learning from the course occurred] Another group focussed on Wikis. The side issue:The main thread:It went through a series of phases over about four weeks, includng several participant initiated chat sessions.
Some individuals reflected on their experience of using the wiki as a rank beginner in using wikis, but as an expert in adult education theory, some as a novice in BOTH areas. They dug up sme research on wikis. I merely watched. Aside. What happened to me during and in this interactive: After the project had been going over 2 weeks, I got an e-mail ?We?re in chat in 5 minutes, care to join us??
This was our course. There were about 7 interactives that spun off. All went forward to one degree or another.
Our aims: Each person was to fulfil their own learning outcomes for the course. They were to work with others. At times there was deep interdependence, and other times they?re just working alongside. Sometimes they?re working on a project where two radically different strengths are brought to bear on the same task. Other times we saw pure information exchange. Either a question & someone else provided an answer - it was interesting to note that more answers came from participants than from staff. [We have yet to decide what caused this, whether this was our tentativeness about being too directive (which bordered on the obsessive at times), or whether there genuinely was a groundswell of helpfulness from one participant to another - like happens in a pilot sometimes] Our aspiration is for this qualification to not be completable without having had a deep experience of community and collaboration.
Post script: The fundamental differences in the groups on the course represented technology skills at one end, and teaching skills at the other. The topic was teaching meets technology. Our aim was to blend these two by setting up an environment where collaboration is essential. We?re running it again this year, we shall see.
Our questions: a little rhetorical. Lots you guys have talked over here have helped clarify things . . .
Is collaboration really such a good thing it should to be built-in in this way? (The learning styles argument etc)
Can collaboration be built in (naturaly and organically? [Can we set up course assessment to genuinely allow for collaboration?]
If yes, what ways can we set up a formal taught course to enhance the chance of genuine and deep collaboration occurring? [What is collaboration??]
As I said: We?re running it again this year, we shall see.
