This is the text chat transcript from yesterday's session. I include it in the body of the post (instead of an attachment) so it is included in fourm searches. It's quite long though!
Nov 19, 2013 10:00:42 AM - SCOPE - COMMUNITY EVENTS
Footprints of Emergence
Roy Williams, Jenny Mackness, Simone Gumtau
00:03 - DeirdreB
You are so welcome
00:05 - Jenny Mackness
Helo Barbie
00:28 - Scott Johnson
Hi Helen, don't tell Lisa I'm playing hooky here:-)
00:31 - Helen Crump @crumphelen
Hello Scott. Good to see you here
00:35 - Jenny Mackness
Hello Catherine
00:50 - Barbie B
Hello Jenny
01:00 - Helen Crump @crumphelen
and it's good to see Catherine here too :)
01:12 - Roy
Hi Barbie
01:12 - Catherine Cronin
Hi Jenny, Helen & all :)
01:42 - DeirdreB
I'm Deirdre from the College of Medicine in Saskatchewan Canada
02:34 - Jenny Mackness
Welcome Peter
03:25 - Peter
Hello... great to be here
03:29 - Scott Johnson
Scott from NE Alberta where it is COLD
03:35 - Roy
Hi Peter
03:50 - Peter
Peter from St. John's NL
08:51 - Sylvia Currie
http://footprints-of-emergence.wikispaces.com/
10:13 - Jutta
Roy, could you speak a little bit louder, pelase!
10:52 - Sylvia Currie
http://jennymackness.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/open-research-and-open-learning-100513.pdf
11:15 - Roy
Sorry Juta (and all) I will talk louder next time!
11:28 - Jutta
thanx Roy
13:39 - Jutta
what are tangents??
13:47 - Roy
I love 'tangents are your best friend'
13:58 - Jutta
yes, what are tangents?
14:20 - Catherine Cronin
@Roy me too :)
14:54 - Roy
tangents - in geometry, but as a metaphor, they are 'spin offs' from the direction of thought
14:58 - Catherine Cronin
To me, tangents are unexpected directions
15:06 - Peter
is someone speaking???
15:11 - Roy
yes, Catherine
15:11 - Peter
no sound
15:12 - Jutta
aaaah, it's mathematics, interesting
15:12 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
Tagents is what happens when I surf the web
15:19 - Sher Meaney
tangents?
15:25 - tonycairns
learning without teaching
15:29 - Jutta
I didn't know tangents I called it serendipity
15:35 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
oops, tangents, not tagents
15:41 - Sher Meaney
sound go away?
15:41 - DeirdreB
no sound???
15:43 - Sylvia Currie
Jenny, do you mean to have the mic?
16:14 - Roy
finger malfuntion .. oops
16:24 - Lori Lebowitz
learning is best when the facilitator and learner are both excited about the process
16:33 - tonycairns
hive learning
16:44 - tonycairns
no teachers
16:59 - Roy
or everyone is a teacher?
17:00 - tonycairns
symbiosis
17:11 - tonycairns
everyones a student
17:20 - Catherine Cronin
@Lori I like that... I was thinking along the same lines. In my experience there is often delight at the unexpected learning/directions :)
17:24 - tonycairns
chaos and order
17:40 - tonycairns
relinquishing role of teaching
17:42 - Roy
delight is essential to keep curiosity going, no?
17:42 - Scott Johnson
like the no one can see the whole picture, opens the thinking to not just ourselves
17:53 - tonycairns
new role granny admirer
17:56 - tonycairns
supporter
18:01 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
Roy I think it's that everyone is a student and everyone is a teacher
18:10 - tonycairns
role of technology is hig
18:19 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
we help each other, but maybe unintentionally
18:28 - tonycairns
new tecnology replaces memory, processing, analysis
18:41 - tonycairns
the replacement of prescription
18:41 - Roy
agreed Mary
18:45 - tonycairns
deat of text
18:50 - tonycairns
and teaching
19:10 - tonycairns
post teaching
19:18 - Catherine Cronin
what a lovely learning space!
19:27 - tonycairns
self learning
19:53 - tonycairns
self reinforcing system
20:05 - tonycairns
peer teaching
20:20 - Roy
hopefully self-correction too
20:20 - tonycairns
teacher free learning
20:48 - tonycairns
learning by instinct inspiration not instruction
21:09 - tonycairns
togeter or alone decide learning
21:30 - Roy
welcome paige ...
21:56 - tonycairns
revolution eveolution or re(ev)olution of learning
22:06 - tonycairns
all lurking is good
22:14 - Sylvia Currie
The forum: http://scope.bccampus.ca/mod/forum/view.php?id=9408
22:15 - tonycairns
levels of confidence to interact
22:25 - tonycairns
cultural aspects of involvement
22:34 - tonycairns
design own assessmnets
22:34 - paigecuffe
thanks roy, multitasking here...
22:45 - Helen Crump @crumphelen
this is really interesting
23:08 - tonycairns
we need to negotiate all learning
23:25 - tonycairns
learning is negotiation of meaning
23:32 - Helen Crump @crumphelen
Hi Paige, I'm multitasking ...on something you sent me earlier ;)
24:01 - Scott Johnson
If we don't care about grading or credits we can recreate emergent learning within any classroom, until you are ejected anyway.
24:01 - tonycairns
360 assessmnet
24:14 - paigecuffe
@helen :-))
24:23 - tonycairns
self peer "teacher" institution college cademy university government
24:34 - tonycairns
evaluation on fly
25:56 - Roy
and when this is done, we'll give you an opportunity to tell us about it in more detail.
26:08 - Roy
mary
27:29 - tonycairns
negotiate as you go
27:55 - tonycairns
meaure of capacity for disorder
28:04 - tonycairns
measure of openess to new ideas
28:08 - tonycairns
myers briggs
28:08 - Roy
Lori, you need to press 'talk' at the top to talk ...
28:15 - tonycairns
genes for extroversion
28:20 - Lori Lebowitz
trying to write & don't know how
28:37 - tonycairns
degree of ability to cope with multiple ideas at same time
28:40 - Roy
Lori, you want to take the mike and speak instead?
28:41 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
Open course but not MOOC
28:49 - DeirdreB
traditional course
28:51 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
not massive
28:56 - Sylvia Currie
Lori, do you see the tools on the whiteboard?
28:56 - Barbie B
UNB BEd Adult Ed online courses included work by Patrica Cranton on Transformative Learning
29:00 - Peter
self-determined self-designed courses
29:02 - Heli Nurmi
I participate in edcmooc again and it's very emergent
29:04 - simone gumtau
to type, select the 'A' text type tool in the floating tool bar
29:18 - Catherine Cronin
Traditional undergraduate course, but moving towards more open & peer assessment
29:25 - tonycairns
we use technology differently here as we are at the end of the eart (ok middle earth) we make up our own rules and systems we do not know what is wrong
29:30 - tonycairns
secondary
30:01 - Helen Crump @crumphelen
this is last open course I participated in - v. emergent
30:21 - Sylvia Currie
Most have have been non-credit - professional development, some open, and MOOCs
30:23 - Jutta
looks like I'm a coward (I'm JP)
30:26 - Roy
Helen, which course?
30:31 - paigecuffe
pc = online and blended undergraduate and postgraduate modules. U/G commonly about 3000 students per cohort
31:08 - Catherine Cronin
@paige wow - what subject/discipline(s)
31:17 - Jutta
In Austria we are mostly teaching in a conservative manner
31:26 - tonycairns
ok happy to share
31:29 - paigecuffe
2 faculites at U/G, psychology and science level 1
31:31 - DeirdreB
I do faculty development
31:37 - Catherine Cronin
really interesting, @tony
31:49 - tonycairns
we design and make our own systems
31:57 - tonycairns
we are a bit anarchic
31:58 - Helen Crump @crumphelen
#xplrpln - exploring personal learning networks - it was a 5 wk open online seminar that just finished. It was problem based
32:04 - Peter
great work!!!
32:05 - Lori Lebowitz
just developing my own online course
32:06 - Catherine Cronin
thanks @Paige
32:13 - tonycairns
I thought mitras stuff was amazing
32:35 - tonycairns
i pinterests google plus fb tweated and pushed it straight away
32:44 - tonycairns
this was so coool
32:50 - Scott Johnson
Do we we prefer working in a preparted for emergence environment or just go a bit crazy in a "normal" setting. The tension of "breaking the rules' drives some of this.
33:37 - Roy
not toooo much preparation, or it feels too constrained
33:42 - Sylvia Currie
Sugata Mitra: Build a School in hte Cloud video - for viewing later :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jYVe1RGaU
33:56 - Roy
hi Nick, welcome ...
34:05 - tonycairns
role of technologies
34:09 - Nick
hi roy
34:11 - tonycairns
role of English
34:16 - tonycairns
role of IT
34:33 - tonycairns
tyranny of english
34:42 - Nick
hi to all, just discovered this, it emerged form my inbox :)
34:43 - tonycairns
the language too
35:27 - Scott Johnson
Growing up in the 60's the power of resistance can be destroyed by too much affordance or accomodation.
35:31 - Catherine Cronin
Great presentation by an undergrade IT students on Hole in the Wall experiment http://www.slideshare.net/Poraich/ptroy-presentation
36:02 - DeirdreB
I thought his work had been discredited? http://donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=mitra
36:05 - tonycairns
good for tool that are ruggedized as oterwise pcs stolen broken vandalized lost sold
36:14 - tonycairns
hole in the wall failed long term
36:19 - tonycairns
but good as start up
36:20 - Jenny Mackness
Yes - there has been criticism of his work Derdre
36:34 - tonycairns
role of gaming and new use of medai
37:07 - tonycairns
bit artificial learn biotechnology for year 12 possible but practical
37:21 - tonycairns
gaming as aopiate of masses
37:38 - tonycairns
also issues with contents in games
37:41 - tonycairns
role of women
37:48 - tonycairns
lack of female avatars
38:00 - tonycairns
great intervention
38:06 - Catherine Cronin
@Deirdre yes, I have read some of the criticisms. One of these is reproduction of power dynamics, particularly re: gender.
38:11 - tonycairns
lots of nay sayers on net on sugata
38:18 - tonycairns
role of big boys
38:24 - tonycairns
loss of small girkls
38:32 - tonycairns
great idea tho
38:41 - tonycairns
experiments done 1999
38:48 - tonycairns
wonder how its moved on from there
39:03 - tonycairns
easy to criticise
39:08 - tonycairns
i think its great
39:15 - tonycairns
i think its exciting
39:19 - tonycairns
student lead
39:26 - tonycairns
learning integrated in liffe
39:26 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
I wonder what it was like when the kids went into more formal enviros if they had become accustomed to having more control over their own learning
39:27 - Peter
look to OLPC and how they dropped a few of these boxes in a remote african village
39:33 - paigecuffe
@Catherine glad to see the gender issues raised -not trivial
39:40 - tonycairns
ore colonialsim??
40:16 - Peter
surgery <smile>
40:24 - paigecuffe
where a corpus of knowledge is needed to avoid killing patients... ;-)
40:34 - Roy
children moving back into prescribed schools can find it confusing - my daughter did when she went from Montessori preschool to state primary - and found she wasnt allowed to help other learners
41:18 - Nick
is there a definiton of emergent learning you are working with here?
42:04 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
@Roy, I can see that - same story for the other way around I think - ppl used to more prescribed learning are a bit lost when given control
42:06 - Roy
Nick, there is, many agents interacting frequently with minimal constraints, for unexpected outcomes.
42:12 - Nick
ok
42:29 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
I have heard students say "just tell us what you want us to do!"
43:04 - simone gumtau
@Mary I agree, this is a real issue
43:17 - Roy
Mitra proposes learners start off with the big questions, and learn the skills en route to finding out how to answer them.
43:49 - Scott Johnson
@Mary, they can learn that stuff at Mcdonalds
43:57 - tonycairns
emergent makes teachers redundant
44:00 - Lori Lebowitz
There seems to be an undetermined ratio depending upon the background and education of the student
44:19 - paigecuffe
Are we only designing for the 'model' student? What about less model students?
44:23 - tonycairns
we lose control we lose respect we lose role of teacher as prescriber
44:29 - Catherine Cronin
Great discussion! :)
44:42 - tonycairns
i welcome emergent teaching but will replace teaching
44:47 - tonycairns
as we know it now
45:19 - Roy
designing for emergence must try to accommodate all - see Simone's work on MEDIATE - for children on the autistic spectrum, which was wonderfully open
45:20 - tonycairns
loss of professionalism
45:34 - Catherine Cronin
@Paige - I think about that question a lot, and it raised its head this week with Udacity news of course...
45:38 - tonycairns
loss f society and cultural rle as google replaces memory
45:50 - Roy
Udacity news?
45:51 - tonycairns
we lose the right to say what and why and when to lean
45:56 - tonycairns
learn
46:03 - paigecuffe
@roy, do you have a URL? sounds interesting
46:42 - Catherine Cronin
@Roy Sebastian Thrun that Udacity MOOCs will no longer seek to "revolutionize" higher education (moving to commercial training). Will post a link.
46:46 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
Fast company article on Udacity's founder's change of thinking: http://www.fastcompany.com/3021473/udacity-sebastian-thrun-uphill-climb
46:49 - Nick
udacity "pivoted", they are going to focus on corporate from now on
46:53 - Catherine Cronin
Thanks Mary!
46:55 - Roy
sure: footprints-of-emergence.wikispace.com,
47:04 - tonycairns
we risk erosion and loss of role of teaching replacement by machines as stated by artur c clarke in video on youtube
47:06 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
read it yesterday, v. interesting!
47:08 - Peter
I believe we need to focus more on children to teach themselves. by the time they graduate they should know how to be an autodidact
47:19 - Peter
grade 12 graduation
47:27 - Nick
which ia amassive abiout turn from only 10 universities in 50 years time
47:36 - tonycairns
they are autoidact when they come to usmaybe we hold them back
47:46 - Peter
I agree
47:50 - Roy
Catherine. Oh no. Futurelearn, UK, is looking highly conservative too - see my tweets @dustcube recnntly
48:01 - paigecuffe
@Roy - wonderful!! thank you.
48:03 - tonycairns
my 8 year ols wants youtube channe for her and her friends all 8 to load gaming video tutorials
48:08 - tonycairns
she has made on to it
48:14 - tonycairns
way beyound what i am doing
48:15 - Jutta
I love them :-)
48:19 - Sylvia Currie
Wonderful, Jutta!
48:23 - Roy
I think the MOOC revolution is already being taken over by the conservative establishment.
48:27 - Jutta
We could do a footprint about today ;-)
48:30 - tonycairns
the 8 year olds are further advanced than us
48:30 - Peter
you let your kids use computers?
48:44 - Peter
ask them to sew or knit
48:45 - tonycairns
we insist they use computers from birth
48:46 - Roy
Absolutely Jutta
49:01 - tonycairns
we use technology 24/7 everywhere
49:04 - tonycairns
we are wired
49:29 - tonycairns
all kids carry multipe devices to access net
49:33 - tonycairns
we live on te net
49:34 - Catherine Cronin
Good "failure of Udacity" summary by Stephen Downes http://www.downes.ca/
49:39 - paigecuffe
looking forward to seeing these as standard in post-course surveys
49:42 - tonycairns
we skype class to class
49:51 - Roy
thanks for the link Catherine
50:13 - tonycairns
we email fb ask twitter video
50:16 - Catherine Cronin
@roy thanks for that link :)
50:19 - Sylvia Currie
http://wenger-trayner.com/betreat/
50:22 - paigecuffe
make a fantastic way to compare across courses too ...
50:47 - tonycairns
can we make the footprints by manipulating 20 or so key leavers to creat footprints on the fly
50:57 - Sylvia Currie
BEtreat - A fantastic workshop!
50:59 - tonycairns
can we track in real time the interchane
51:01 - Jutta
No, we didn't meet at the betreat, we met at Change11!
51:11 - Roy
there is more on MEDIATE in a paper we have coming out in Leonardo in 2014 - we can send you a copy if you want, and Simone has lots more in her research
51:13 - tonycairns
visulaize the experinece
51:19 - tonycairns
track the sinteractions
51:22 - Jutta
BEtreat, a strange experience for onliners...
51:24 - tonycairns
track the attitudes
51:26 - Sylvia Currie
Easy to lose track where we meet people these days :-)
51:34 - tonycairns
google glasses feeds and auto analyse
52:01 - tonycairns
we ae devices to measure student invlovement and interaction
52:09 - tonycairns
we could look at metadat from theri data
52:25 - tonycairns
not content just volume frequency and source direction of data
52:36 - Scott Johnson
So this could generate a visual for each person's experience?
52:41 - Catherine Cronin
I've loved your ModPo posts, Jenny :)
52:43 - Sylvia Currie
https://www.coursera.org/course/modernpoetry
52:49 - paigecuffe
Lovely snapshot technique of learner change through a course
53:00 - tonycairns
i just like the shapes
53:07 - tonycairns
works for visual learners
53:20 - tonycairns
do the footprints become an end in themselves
53:25 - Roy
Paige - the ability to track the dynamics of change is one of the things that really exites me.
53:28 - Jutta
Yes Tony, I'm a visual type :-)
53:31 - Sylvia Currie
http://jennymackness.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/footprints-of-emergence-so-what-2/
53:47 - DeirdreB
Sorry have a meeting have to leave
53:49 - paigecuffe
Roy this will be one of the things I will follow up!
54:00 - Roy
OK Deirdre, thanks for coming
54:36 - Roy
emails are on the footprints wiki if you want to follow up
54:59 - tonycairns
i think its interesting but would like it multiple feeds from students teachers and assesors mapped over time
55:24 - tonycairns
isnt this a self and peer and student survey shown in a fancy chart
55:31 - Roy
surfacing tacit knowledge and experience is also a big plus in footprints
55:33 - Lori Lebowitz
can't attend next week but would like to keep connected to this...very interesting to me..can I get a copy of what went on?
55:43 - tonycairns
i would love to try it
55:59 - tonycairns
we have the data now from student surveys
56:13 - tonycairns
and can adpat our spreadsheet to make these footprints
56:19 - tonycairns
so its an excel chart
56:21 - Roy
Lori, sure, the wiki is open (you can join too) and you can contact us on email as well
57:10 - tonycairns
i think this is a very useful device
57:11 - Scott Johnson
Factors can be a surprize and great to "see" in a footprint.
57:34 - Sylvia Currie
Here's the blog post link again: http://jennymackness.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/footprints-of-emergence-so-what-2/
57:54 - tonycairns
wonder if we can move it into 3d as a video vsualization over time so we can see how it evolves so footprnt via steps each day
57:57 - Roy
factors require more thought than you would expect, but we find its worth the sweat
58:05 - tonycairns
so evalueat every day same survey
58:11 - tonycairns
in a reflection with students
58:13 - paigecuffe
@tony Yes!!
58:14 - tonycairns
at end of day
58:19 - tonycairns
and map in real time
58:25 - Sher Meaney
Thanks for an interesting workshop. I must go to a meeting now. I'll check the recording later to see what I missed.
58:31 - tonycairns
and rspond to stduets responses
58:56 - tonycairns
so build learning by rsponding ti students
59:09 - Catherine Cronin
Sorry I must leave -- thank you all, hope to join next webinar :)
59:10 - Scott Johnson
We have anticipated every possible factor only to be undone by an emerging factor:-)
59:27 - Roy
thanks Catherine
59:40 - Mary Burgess (BCcampus)
This has been so interesting, thank you so much!
1:00:21 - Roy
thanks Mary
1:00:48 - Sylvia Currie
The conversation continues... http://scope.bccampus.ca/mod/forum/view.php?id=9408
1:01:10 - Roy
adding a timeline to animate the dynamics of changes would be superb ...
1:01:34 - Scott Johnson
Do let management hear about footprints or we'll be burried under them.
1:02:25 - Roy
tony - sounds great
1:02:39 - tonycairns
sounds great
1:02:47 - tonycairns
clusters sound perfect
1:02:59 - paigecuffe
Need to go, Thank you - really fired me up!
1:03:03 - tonycairns
yes sliders
1:03:11 - Scott Johnson
By Paige
1:03:16 - tonycairns
sounds wonderful
1:03:23 - tonycairns
i think this can work
1:03:23 - Roy
thanks paige
1:03:50 - tonycairns
i will ask our maths and claculus students to try prgramming it
1:04:08 - Sylvia Currie
http://scope.bccampus.ca/mod/forum/view.php?id=9408
1:04:24 - Jutta
sorry, I cannot come next time!
1:04:27 - Sylvia Currie
http://youtu.be/HM_gXYAETWk
1:04:29 - tonycairns
thanks a million gotta get the kids to school make lunces thanks people its been a blat
1:04:31 - Roy
thank you all for contributing - great session - so much to think about!
1:04:33 - tonycairns
i have loved this
1:04:37 - Heli Nurmi
thanks!
1:04:44 - tonycairns
its a work in prgress
1:04:50 - tonycairns
and i will try it next year
1:04:50 - Roy
good to see you Heli
1:05:03 - Jutta
thanx, it was enteresting :-)
1:05:17 - Roy
thanks Jutta, love your work
1:05:19 - Sylvia Currie
I'll post these links in the SCoPE discussion as well
1:05:29 - Scott Johnson
Thanks everyone
1:05:39 - tonycairns
thanks a million can you email us those 3 links they look great
1:05:39 - Nick
COULD YOU POST THESE TO THE ASYNCHRONOUS FORUM PLEASE?
1:05:48 - Nick
ok thanks
1:05:50 - Sylvia Currie
Yes, I will!
1:05:59 - tonycairns
thanks amillion
1:06:02 - Jenny Mackness
Thanks - I can't access the mic now
1:06:02 - tonycairns
tony out
1:06:25 - Nick
bye, lovely serendipitous surprise for me, truly emergent!!!
1:06:39 - Roy
Nick, great!
1:07:33 - Jutta
bye bye
1:07:41 - Roy
bye
1:07:48 - Hilda Anggraeni
bye
1:07:49 - Hilda Anggraeni
thanks