Scheduled Seminar Discussions

Stimulating chat session yesterday! Jo-Ann left us with the idea of "visioning what is universal" when it comes to instructional design. Interesting challenge!

I'm posting our text chat transcript here because for some reason I can't seem to make it available on the site without logging in. Looking into that, meanwhile...

Monday, 6 June 2011, 04:28 PM --> Monday, 6 June 2011, 05:33 PM

16:28: Sylvia Currie has just entered this chat

16:29 Sylvia: Hi Bill!

16:30 Bill: Hi Sylvia! Nice discussion so far!

16:31 Sylvia: Yes! You started out with some juicy questions!

16:32 Bill: So are many of these SCoPE folks academics from BC?

16:32: Derek Chirnside has just entered this chat

16:32 Bill: Welcome, Derek!

16:32 Sylvia: I just got the word out on twitter that you had scheduled this chat, so hope to see some folks drop in

16:32 Sylvia: Derek! Hi there

16:32 Bill: Great! I thought a freeflow might be a good way to kick off week #1 of the discussionj!

16:33 Derek: Hi. Won't be here long have got a few things to do

16:33 Sylvia: Yes, good idea. We rarely use text chat but it can be a great way to kick things off

16:33 Bill: Derek--go ahead and shoot with your comments or questions while you're here1

16:35 Bill: ....while waiting for others: Sylvia: so how do I get my Phd from BC?

16:35 Derek: Darn it, Lost the chat trying to see Bills Profile

16:36 Sylvia: Hmmm, do you want to move to BC or do it online?

16:36 Derek: I pesume there is no history?

16:36 Derek: (Move to do a PhD?)

16:36 Bill: Bill is an anomaly from the United States lost somewhere in the Deparment of Justice....ATF....online. for the PhD. Live in MD. Cannot do a divorce.

16:37 Sylvia: @Derek the chat will be saved but if you leave and come back you might not see what you missed (not sure about that)

16:38 Derek: Hey, I'm gone so, so I'll ask: what can be done to hep build Institutional ISD knowledge - without temlplaes

16:38 Bill: Derek:

16:39 Bill: Here's what I think---there is 30 plus years of validated research around ISD both for corporate settings and education. Why can't we leverage XML technology and decision trees to automate the thinking process behind basic ISD?

16:39 Bill: ..or a Community of Practice might work for your purposes, Derek.

16:40 Derek: Hmm. Intresting question. Maybe

16:40 Derek: OK. First off . . . Education is way more complex than mere decision trees??

16:40 Bill: COP's...I have to say: why are we publishing so many books///and now e-books on redundant findings? Why not sequence it into a simple database program so novice ISD'rs can move more quickly?

16:41 Derek: I agree: too man books.

16:41 Sylvia: Has automation been attempted?

16:42 Bill: yes....I have some research that it was done earlier--but usually around e-learning design...I was thinking more basic: what modes of training delivery are most effective for what learning outcomes.

16:42 Bill: hold a sec and i'LL PULL THE URL.

16:44 Sylvia: I also remember a project several years ago -- although not entirely automated. It might have fit more into the template category

16:45 Derek: I guess from a simplistic pont of view there could be some domains where automation is possible.

16:45 Bill: lETITIA uDAMA AND gARY mORRISON (2007) "hOW DO INSTRUCTIONAL DESIGNERS USE AUTOMATED instructrional design tool"? sorry for the caps.

16:45 Derek: eg using a PABX telephone xchange

16:46 Bill: here ya go: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563204001906

16:46 Sylvia: Right, so a skills training type of situation

16:47 Derek: In the case I had in mind, the real questions i the workshop were NOT to do with the skills . . .

16:47 Sylvia: Interesting -- "The novice designer is likely to gain more benefit from using the tool than a naı¨ve or expert designer. "...

16:47 Bill: yes. I have to say I'm biased: I work in the world of corporate/government training...so my bias is on skill building and training needs assessments.

16:47: Bill Thimmesch has left this chat

16:47 Derek: They were to do with how to handle bomb threats and how to deal with a boss who wanted you to lie.

16:48 Derek: . . . . not something automated ISD could cope with.

16:48 Sylvia: So in a sense the automated design tool is in itself an ISD training tool

16:49 Derek: Q: what about leadership training Bill? Automatable? Partly?

16:49 Sylvia: @Derek, looks like Bill got booted out of the chat

16:49 Derek: "I work in the world of corporate/government training" Point taken

16:49 Derek: Yes, I noticed.

16:50 Derek: Bothour time hae been reset, so something funy is going on

16:50: Bill Thimmesch has just entered this chat

16:50 Derek: Welcome back

16:50 Bill: I got kicked out..darn!

16:51 Sylvia: Also this quote from the paper is interesting: "Non-designers should probably be trained on instructional design tasks prior to exposure to automated instructional design tools."

16:51 Sylvia: Welcome back, Bill!

16:51 Derek: "I work in the world of corporate/government training" Point taken

16:51 Bill: ok...so you go into the Emergency Room at the hospital...a nurse does a rapid diagnosis...based on your responses he or she determines next steps....since we have the technology of XML and branching technology (decision trees) ....why could we not adapte that to ISD?

16:52: Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers has just entered this chat

16:52 Derek: OK now I get it. Yes. Agreed.

16:52 Derek: I've seen some wonderful work on this. Medical. Sydney.

16:52 Sylvia: Welcome Jo Ann!

16:53 Derek: But oly sucessful since it is highly managed ; ISD people check in each week to deal with new decision trees.

16:53 Bill: ...so I was thinking: Hi Jo Ann! scroll up or down:0

16:54 Derek: Bill, Sylvia. Ned to get back to other things now.

16:54 Derek: Thanks Bill - go well.

16:54 Jo Ann: Hi everyone

16:54 Bill: Hi Jo Ann...so what's your interest on this topic?

16:54 Sylvia: Thanks for dropping in, Derek

16:55 Bill: another link: http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-8101134/you-ready-automated-design.html

16:55 Bill: take care, Derek!

16:55: Derek Chirnside has left this chat

16:56 Jo Ann: Hi Bill, I've been helping a dance/movement therapist in the US with instructional design and generally I'm a scope person. I like to learn and I like what I've seen so far.

16:59 Sylvia: I find it difficult to think about automating without some examples. Earlier when you mentioned the nurse in emergency room it helped me to get my head into it

17:01 Sylvia: Now Jo Ann mentions dance therapy and I'm trying to think how that can relate to automating ISD. Ideas?

17:01 Bill: Right. So I'm thinking about a question set, sequenced, which ISD folks could use to identify the purpose of the training, potential strategies to deliver the training based on the job oebectives, etc.

17:01 Bill: Tell me more about dance therapy and I'll improvise from there.

17:02 Jo Ann: I think that decision trees are helpful, but I'm aware of how little training many of my colleagues have -- I have to help them with articles, and lead them individually -- perhaps the automated courses with help.

17:03 Bill: ok...so what type of structured, guided practice would your learners need to go through in order to master the basics of what you want them to do...and could this be done online?

17:03 Jo Ann: Dance/movement therapy is one of 6 expressive arts therapies and there are the usual psychology courses like abnormal and neuroscience, but inaddition there is movement language and a lot of movement sensory training.

17:06 Bill: ...so if you had a tool (EPSS) that you could work through to identify the psycho-motor skills required for mastery...and how to teach them based on state of the art principles in dance therapy--would that be useful? and what would it look like?

17:06 Jo Ann: The course I was helping design for this spring was set up in a blended format. I had to prepare the instructor to ask questions to the technicians -- on Blackboard and also help her with her design . She initially wanted content based -- but really liked the more interactive style once she worked with the idea.

17:06 Sylvia: This is a fascinating case

17:08 Jo Ann: Bill -- interesting take Bill -- what would most likely be useful is for the instructors to have a framework and then be able to address the various components within the broader framework.

17:08 Bill: Right. But a thinking tool would identify WHY interaction activiites are important....based on the goals for the training.

17:10 Jo Ann: Yes -- the idea of not downloading "content" -- but brainstorming about what would suit students' learning and why it would help with the knowledge that they need to learn, could help frame the course.

17:14 Jo Ann: Most of my interest in online learning began because I thought it would be worthwhile to have more videos demonstrating the many areas of dance/movement therapy. Now there are more professional videos and slides with narratives, and it is advancing -- but not as fast as I think it could and perhaps there could be more learning for instructors with AID approaches. Not sure.

17:17 Bill: hmmmmm...again might depend on the objectives: if this is a fine motor skill, then they would need to perform it through a simulation (kind of like the Nintendo WII).

17:18 Bill: This would provide feedback...but your ISD tool would tell you that since the activity is performance-based, the student needs to demonstrate and receive feedback on performance...cou'dnt just watch a slideshow unless you were teach "visula discrimination" skills...or am I now out of orbit?

17:21 Jo Ann: You are not out of orbit -- but I'm comfortable with spheres and planes. Dance/Movement therapy works with a wide range of clients and all forms of expressive movements -- less so but not omitting fine motor. I see the ISD tool as perhaps being designed specially for people who need to be walked through models that over time will be tested as to that the learner learns.

17:22 Bill: ....so they see the models and then perform against them?

17:23 Bill: ...not to over-conclude: but perhaps what this is showing is that an electronic performace suppport tool (for training) needs to be specific to the topic being taught?

17:24 Jo Ann: Yes -- I think without the models (mostly visual with auditory) and without application and feedback in the field and research -- the instructors will be isolated and keep re-inventing the wheel. The key thing is bringing the dance/movement therapists on board.

17:24 Bill: there is no universl way to do a training needs assessment and suggested design?

17:24 Bill: "on board" does that mean you need to identify and agree on performance standards?

17:25 Jo Ann: Yes, I agree the fine tuning is to be adapted to the professional skill that is needed -- but also that people have to know that they can benefit from the technology and this form of learning.

17:25 Bill: Sylvia? what do you think about all this so far?

17:26 Jo Ann: On board -- to me means buying into the learning benefit. We both welcome your comments Sylvia.

17:28 Sylvia: Still here I'm stuck on the universal part, and thinking about situations when anything to do with learning could fall into that category

17:29 Bill: Is there a problem with the domains we're hitting? Training or Education? Those are two very separate areas for an ISD tool.

17:30 Jo Ann: I see them as overlapping -- but perhaps this is problematic to conceptualize here. I like the idea of visioning what is universal..

17:31 Bill: hmmm Visioning what is Universal? I like that...ok...I'm going to post a thread on that tomorrow morning...for now: Thank you Jo Ann and Sylvia! It's dinnertime for me...so I have to run for now. Really enjoyed sharing on this!

17:31 Jo Ann: Bye Silvia and Bill Thanks

17:32 Sylvia: This has been really interesting!

17:32 Bill: c U Tomorrow!

17:32 Sylvia: See you back in the seminar. Bye for now

17:32 Jo Ann: Okay, enjoy you meal Bill. See you soon Sylvia.

17:33: Bill Thimmesch has left this chat