International student participation in E-learning Institutes
by minhaaj ur rehman -
Number of replies: 5
This is a common practice that E-learning institution in western universities have limited international enrollment and discouraging policies and fees. I would like to invite your thoughts on why western institutions are discouraging and rather biased against international students where E-learning should be free and collaborative. Any comments, suggestions, theoretical model to resolve this issue would be welcome.
In reply to minhaaj ur rehman
Re: International student participation in E-learning Institutes
by George Siemens -
Hi Minhaaj,
Thanks for raising this topic. While the notion of fees and international learners are not the specific focus of our conference, they are important to consider.
During Grainne's presentation today, she raised an important question: "What is the role of the university in a technological era" (ok, I slightly paraphrased her ques). Are universities here to provide content? Scaffolding? Accreditation?
I fully agree that elearning should be collaborative and that it should be accessible. I'm not sure about free, however. Many parts of learning are free - specifically content. OCW, Connexions, and other OER initiatives are great resources for learners who are many concerned with knowing, not accreditation.
Once we start looking at accreditation, we start adding a type of value to the process. The value of accreditation is a stamp of competence. We can provide similar values through people commenting on each others work (bloggers, for example, provide a degree of reputation building). But, what you are looking for, I believe, is not the learning (which is increasingly freely available as OER content) or the validation of peers (which you can achieve through networks, conferences, publication, etc. What you appear to be specifically addressing is the value of a degree from a reputable institution. I think this should be much more accessible than it currently is...but I don't currently see how it could be free, assuming of course that you are pursuing the type of learning/accreditation I read in your question.
It's important to consider as well why some type of content is free. Universities are public institutions - and content funded by taxpayers should be freely available. Research reports should be open access. Course materials should be open. I base this on the fact that people have already paid for the content once. No need to pay again. Where a corporation funds research within its own labs (not universities), they same moral imperative does not apply.
Content is also free when it has been created by a public group. This is a key irritation I have with content locked behind LMS. Content created by learners ought to be their property. Value here is found in the collaboration and as a consequence can be made freely available.
But accreditation does not yet have a value point outside of the university model. Sure, there are informal ways to assign value through eBay, Amazon rating systems, but those are likely not to be accepted by employers :).
My main point is that "free" in our university context cannot happen under the current system. As a result, we should be pursuing accessible standards. And the price of most degrees today is hard to justify.
George
Thanks for raising this topic. While the notion of fees and international learners are not the specific focus of our conference, they are important to consider.
During Grainne's presentation today, she raised an important question: "What is the role of the university in a technological era" (ok, I slightly paraphrased her ques). Are universities here to provide content? Scaffolding? Accreditation?
I fully agree that elearning should be collaborative and that it should be accessible. I'm not sure about free, however. Many parts of learning are free - specifically content. OCW, Connexions, and other OER initiatives are great resources for learners who are many concerned with knowing, not accreditation.
Once we start looking at accreditation, we start adding a type of value to the process. The value of accreditation is a stamp of competence. We can provide similar values through people commenting on each others work (bloggers, for example, provide a degree of reputation building). But, what you are looking for, I believe, is not the learning (which is increasingly freely available as OER content) or the validation of peers (which you can achieve through networks, conferences, publication, etc. What you appear to be specifically addressing is the value of a degree from a reputable institution. I think this should be much more accessible than it currently is...but I don't currently see how it could be free, assuming of course that you are pursuing the type of learning/accreditation I read in your question.
It's important to consider as well why some type of content is free. Universities are public institutions - and content funded by taxpayers should be freely available. Research reports should be open access. Course materials should be open. I base this on the fact that people have already paid for the content once. No need to pay again. Where a corporation funds research within its own labs (not universities), they same moral imperative does not apply.
Content is also free when it has been created by a public group. This is a key irritation I have with content locked behind LMS. Content created by learners ought to be their property. Value here is found in the collaboration and as a consequence can be made freely available.
But accreditation does not yet have a value point outside of the university model. Sure, there are informal ways to assign value through eBay, Amazon rating systems, but those are likely not to be accepted by employers :).
My main point is that "free" in our university context cannot happen under the current system. As a result, we should be pursuing accessible standards. And the price of most degrees today is hard to justify.
George
In reply to minhaaj ur rehman
Re: International student participation in E-learning Institutes
by Terry Anderson -
Hi Minhaaj
The issue of costs for international students is a bit beyond the scope of this conference or most individuals participating. But I would like to note some of the challenges associated with international delivery. In Canada governments partially pay for higher education but students are expected to contribute - I'm told the average undergraduate student has a $30,000 student debt by the time they graduate. So since governments do not fund Canadiansstudents 100% for higher education, they are even more reluctant to fully fund international students. One could argue that this could be an effective way of providing foreign aide, but this is a complicated issue and current priorities of Canadian Aide are for most impoverished countries.
You mention that e-learning should be free, but there are real costs associated with its provision - doing a google scholar search on e-learning and costs produces references to many studies - most showing little difference in costs if student support, tuition, library, assessment, course development, research costs etc. are all factored in. Of course with Open Educational Resources and students supporting each other via social networking we HOPE costs can be drastically reduced, but to my knowledge nobody is demonstrating education delivery (note I did not say e-learning) at significantly lower costs than conventional education.
Basic thinking here seems to be that if you want e-learning, the web provides a host of resources and opportunities. If you want e-education with credentials - you have to pay. national or international.
Terry
The issue of costs for international students is a bit beyond the scope of this conference or most individuals participating. But I would like to note some of the challenges associated with international delivery. In Canada governments partially pay for higher education but students are expected to contribute - I'm told the average undergraduate student has a $30,000 student debt by the time they graduate. So since governments do not fund Canadiansstudents 100% for higher education, they are even more reluctant to fully fund international students. One could argue that this could be an effective way of providing foreign aide, but this is a complicated issue and current priorities of Canadian Aide are for most impoverished countries.
You mention that e-learning should be free, but there are real costs associated with its provision - doing a google scholar search on e-learning and costs produces references to many studies - most showing little difference in costs if student support, tuition, library, assessment, course development, research costs etc. are all factored in. Of course with Open Educational Resources and students supporting each other via social networking we HOPE costs can be drastically reduced, but to my knowledge nobody is demonstrating education delivery (note I did not say e-learning) at significantly lower costs than conventional education.
Basic thinking here seems to be that if you want e-learning, the web provides a host of resources and opportunities. If you want e-education with credentials - you have to pay. national or international.
Terry
In reply to minhaaj ur rehman
Re: International student participation in E-learning Institutes
by Vivian Forssman -
Minhaaj,
As much as I wish it were possible, I don't know how *accredited* e-learning and/or *accredited* bums-in-physical-seats learning can be free. We need an economic model to pay faculty and e-learning delivery requires faculty. Early e-learning thinking, circa '90's, proposed the scalability of this delivery mode, but changing typical faculty/student ratios just hasn't happened. Why? Because to deliver good e-learning, we need as much or more faculty involvement with the learner. Unless we want e-learning to be nothing more than a content-dump pipe with standardized testbanks for assessment, we need faculty to teach, to mediate, to facilitate, to assess.
That said, I agree that a post-national world needs to think about altering the edu-economics in developed nations, where international student enrolment, with huge tuition fee structures, has become a means of funding institutional "extras". How about at least a level playing field?
In reply to Vivian Forssman
Re: International student participation in E-learning Institutes
Hi Minhaaj,
I think that the online courses in many fields are still developing, although they are more advanced in distance education and in some more traditional areas. In one of the fields I am interested in developing -- dance/movement therapy online -- it is going to take time. Over the past six years, one of the things I do is teach to dance/movement therapy to international students who come to Calgary,Canada for intensive four week trainings in accredited courses that they can use to apply to the American Dance Therapy Association. I have discussed with several of them about having several of their courses online and that that would take time, but that it is possible. The American Dance Therapy Association is interested in this -- but so far have only promoted a few continuing education online. I also have assisted students working on projects and thesis work while in their own homeland or elsewhere through the advantages of technology. This was only possible for me to do as I learned more about e-learning and my confidence grew. I suspect it will be the case with others. I imagine the pathway for e-learning can be a mix of informal and formal trainings and courses for many students and then perhaps, over time it becomes more formal. How will we deal with numbers if we don't have the mix? There are so many Canadian and international students that want to learn.
Jo Ann
I think that the online courses in many fields are still developing, although they are more advanced in distance education and in some more traditional areas. In one of the fields I am interested in developing -- dance/movement therapy online -- it is going to take time. Over the past six years, one of the things I do is teach to dance/movement therapy to international students who come to Calgary,Canada for intensive four week trainings in accredited courses that they can use to apply to the American Dance Therapy Association. I have discussed with several of them about having several of their courses online and that that would take time, but that it is possible. The American Dance Therapy Association is interested in this -- but so far have only promoted a few continuing education online. I also have assisted students working on projects and thesis work while in their own homeland or elsewhere through the advantages of technology. This was only possible for me to do as I learned more about e-learning and my confidence grew. I suspect it will be the case with others. I imagine the pathway for e-learning can be a mix of informal and formal trainings and courses for many students and then perhaps, over time it becomes more formal. How will we deal with numbers if we don't have the mix? There are so many Canadian and international students that want to learn.
Jo Ann
In reply to minhaaj ur rehman
Re: International student participation in E-learning Institutes
by terumi miyazoe -
Hi Minhaaj, I often think that people might forget that, though I am an international student from a Canadian perspective, I as a Japanese citizen, pay taxes to my country that help support international students who are studying here. In my country, the tuition fees are the same regardless of citizenships.