Joined on May 30, 2008 at 8:50 AM
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Me: Morning...afternoon...evening everybody
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Caroline Park: Thought I had better get in early in case all 235 came
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glen: HI Terry
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): I'm in a loud and busy room
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glen: Got to grab my coffee
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Caroline Park: Our Centre is considering doing a Virtual Conference so it was good from that perspective too
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Rick Kenny: Bonjour!
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peter t: hello
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): I'm at the educational technology users group spring workshop right now. Mutitasking
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): 110 people. LOTS of fun
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): wow! neat. Look forward the book Terry
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Yes -- Online conferencing -- I've been telling lots of people about how great it is.
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glen: For every individual who attends a conference it costs 3-5 K YOu could buy a videoconference unit for a classroom
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Nellie Deutsch: not yet
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vivian forssman: as good? I have found this to be superior to F2F
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glen: Exactly
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Nellie Deutsch: I know two doctoral students who are working on it right now
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Nellie Deutsch: one works in Cisco
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I think it is very reasonable to go to an e-conference. I can't afford many conferences that I want to go to.
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glen: Face to face conferences on DE are crazy
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Nellie Deutsch: online converences are not as accepted in the corporate world
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minhaaj: Hi Nellie
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minhaaj: Hi all
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glen: I appreciate this Scope Effort It is great and works well.
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Nellie Deutsch: that's the research that is being done by a friend of mine from the UOP
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Hi Minhaaj and Nellie
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glen: SL is the place to be
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Nellie Deutsch: lost sound
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Nellie Deutsch: Hi Jo Ann
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I have sound, hope you get it back Nellie
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Nellie Deutsch: i got it back
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Nellie Deutsch:
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: great
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glen: I really like the MindMeister map that Sue set up. I ended up adding most of my comments there
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glen: didn't get back to the wiki
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glen: Will the mindmap be linked on the wiki?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): That's great, Glen. For sure will integrate the 2
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minhaaj: Yea MindMap was cool
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glen: @curriegreat
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I too loved the MindMeister - and I think we can continue on that with Susan's invitation.
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minhaaj: Anyone can make their personalized by uing Freemind and put it on so that people could know their understanding of SOF 08
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minhaaj: personalized mind maps
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Nellie Deutsch: Here is the article: http://eprints.qut.edu.au/archive/00006623/01/6623.pdf
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Sue says we should call it OUR mindmap, not Sue's mind map
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Nellie Deutsch: on produsage
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vivian forssman: we need to use ideas of produsage to continue this process together
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Nellie Deutsch: yes
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: -- Yes -- I have it up on my screne.
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Nellie Deutsch: yes
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann; Yes
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Caroline Park: UYes
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Nellie Deutsch: sorry
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minhaaj: Terry, i have been raising the point of taking solid steps in the domain of universal, affordable and independent educational decisions at canadian faculty both synchronously and asynchronously, can you address that ?
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Caroline Park: cool
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glen: Gives time for reflection
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Caroline Park: I kept missing the presentations but caught up later in archive
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Yes it was working on the issues time. People could come and go.
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minhaaj: I am sorry for my naivety, but are there steps taken in this domain ?
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peter t: i wasn't that active , saw a few elluminate sessions, read all the moodle discussions, but didn't participate in wiki or mindmap, so for me the conference length was just right. If I was m ore active I'm not sure how I would feel about length.
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Kelly Edmonds: I like how there was a summary of some sort each week that let me see the highlights in order to participate the next week, when I had more time.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): And in a group discussion not any particular individual's reponsibility to respond or elaborate
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Minhaaj: I think that lots of Canadians are continuing to communicate internationally. I think this conference is able to consider it at the edge.
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minhaaj: thanks Terry
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minhaaj: I wasn't talking about communicating Jo, but thanks anyways
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Caroline Park: hahahah I noticed
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Nellie Deutsch:
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Very good Terry
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Nellie Deutsch: online teaching is learning, too
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Kelly Edmonds: I didn't attend any... sorry
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Rick Kenny: I was only able to liten to 2.
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peter t: poll not active
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minhaaj: options aren't working
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Caroline Park: A
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Sue L.: I can't seem to select
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glen: Is ther a b AND A HALF?
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Terumi: vote function does not work
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Trying to figure ou thow to make letters visible...
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peter t: for those i saw
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peter t: heh
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Sue L.: liked the cross section of people to present
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Nellie Deutsch: I think they should have been more structured
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peter t: we all were assigned to 'filter' the messages for signal/noise
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Caroline Park: Of course I am obsessive compulsive and love structure
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Sue L.: I wished that the wiki had an RSS feed
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Nellie Deutsch: the threads should have been organized a bit more
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): @Nellie -- do you mean have only facilitators initiate topics?
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Sue L.: I wish there was more discussion this last week
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Nellie Deutsch: I will explain.
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glen: I liked the comprehensive mind map first
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vivian forssman: recalling principles of knowledge-building - maybe we need to coach ourselves on aggregating knowledge - Mindmap really helped
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glen: it integrated things for me
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minhaaj: I dont think shes writing anything
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Sue L.: true I liked although the weeks were seperate, there was still much cross over between them
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Would be useful to add keyword to manage a bit
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minhaaj: Good point Nellie.
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Terumi: Compared to the one last year, I found a big progress and sort of sophistication.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Interesting. Good feedback.
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peter t: who should set up the threads?
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peter t: the organziers?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Balance of too many forums versus using one forum with many threads
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peter t: or the participants?
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minhaaj: I guess anyone coud peter. i remember introducing one
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): We left so participants can initiate topic threads
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glen: need to get people going on Twitter, easier for people to make quick condensed contributions
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Nellie Deutsch: yes, exactly
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I think all participants are "learning" the rules
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Nellie Deutsch: I am a Canadian
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glen: Feed the Twits into the wiki
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peter t: was that the best way to organize disucssions?
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Nellie Deutsch: yes, I agree. I should have perhaps
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glen: Rss on moodle is primitive
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glen: but you can feed in
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Sue L.: do you mean on this topic?
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Caroline Park: I ask my students to each pick a colour for Wiki so we can see changes and by whom
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Link to tweets in confence site, but feed would encourage more conversation
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Sue L.: I'm ready for the viral pd next!
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peter t: depends on topic
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glen: It certainly has potential
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glen: People need to get to know each other virtually
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Right. Will be great
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minhaaj: hehe yea glen
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Sue L.: no that's the next SCOPE conference
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Nellie Deutsch: I would add more live sessions
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minhaaj: Nellie you already think conference was short
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Sue L.: I liked the mix of live and asyncronous
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): It's a seminar discussion facilitated by Heather Ross and Jennifer Jones
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Sue L.: need two!!
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I'd like to have a SCOPE one on "connections with Purpose" through e-learning
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peter t: ironic I have to pick C
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Caroline Park: Going face to face now is a cop out
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Nellie Deutsch: I like live sessions, not with Elluniate but with WiZiQ
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Peter West: What about combinations of B & C
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Terumi: twitter was one of big discovery i made this time -- fun to know George is in Africa and complaining now, for example -- humane.
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minhaaj: Yea Please think about Wiziq next time organizers
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Nellie Deutsch: I would have brought some online students as well as instructors
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Nellie Deutsch: who teach online
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minhaaj: Yea alot of teachers could have joined
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Sue L.: I'm left wondering what is the difference between CCL, CNIE, CIDER and now this group?
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glen: CNIE still stuck in F2F conference
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minhaaj: and we wouldnt have missed session with tom too.
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vivian forssman: I would appreciate an aggregation of not just CADE but also CIDER, BCcampus and others
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Rick Kenny: Free, I hope...
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minhaaj: hehe good point Rick
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): @ vivian I like that idea
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Sue L.: A SIG of CNIE?
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glen: A virtual SIG of CNIE
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Sue L.: liked the opportunity to participate in producing
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Rick Kenny: A CNIE SIG would be good. We need to do that overall in CNIE
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Nellie Deutsch: exactly
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Peter West: Should the documented outstanding issues dictate the form of next steps? (e.g., collaborative document crafting, virtual/f-to-f meetings, etc.)
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Nellie Deutsch: adminstrators
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vivian forssman: I would like to see emerge a list of key questions we want to explore so that we can focus our research collaboratively
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Rick Kenny: Professional Association
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glen: I would prefer this form over CNIE. They haven't really embraced the notion of virtual activity
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Rick Kenny: Yet
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Cider needs to be more connected to things like this.
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Nellie Deutsch: I woould like to see research questions
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glen: Elluminate and Moodle are still a bit walled in.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Yes, we need to connect all of this togehter somehow
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Nellie Deutsch: you can add wiziq on Moodle
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minhaaj: Nobody seems interested Nellie
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): We have wiziq nellie
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minhaaj: You should USE it Syliva more often
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Nellie Deutsch: Yes, I noticed, Sylvia
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): We're interested, and use it quite often
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glen: Pan Canadian is too limiting in scope for education which is boarderless
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minhaaj: they are launching new version in couple of days and that by far beats Elluminate
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minhaaj: very nice point glen, specially when its e-learning
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Sue L.: I believe "Canadian" education is different, as is Finnish, etc.
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Nellie Deutsch: pedagogy interests me
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minhaaj: how so Sue ?
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glen: DE distinction has to go
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glen: It is education period
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minhaaj: Yea when its online, it should be indiscriminate
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Nellie Deutsch: exactly
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Sue L.: policy
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minhaaj: care to explain Sue ?
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Nellie Deutsch: practice is important
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Sue L.: sorry concentrating on speakers
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minhaaj: I might sound too keen on affordability but this is also good for canadian students and its not beyond canadian agenda
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Nellie Deutsch: no one mentioned blended learning in HE
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vivian forssman: I agree with Rick on this - shifting from tech to a broader sense of learning design mediated with/through technology
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Peter West: Must be framed in the context of learning (an essential part of a whole)
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Sue L.: I liked your focus Rick!
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Nellie Deutsch: that is a huge issue
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Nellie Deutsch: many people are living online more than offline
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Sue L.: when we looked at why elearning is crucial.. quality of life was mentioned
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Floyd Tremblay: I was distressed to learn there was a perceived lack of interest by the higher learning institutions because of poor attendance in this forum. There is tremendous interest in good instructional design in e-learning, especially at the continuing studies arm, I worder if it is because universities have moved to more of a business model that they have forgotten how to share. We all have a imortant role to play in promoting good content that is properly designed.
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: If instructors are encouraging learning and development -- more learning objects, technology, and courses of all kinds will be brought to the global scene.
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Nellie Deutsch: in Israel, too
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Floyd I agree.
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peter t: heh
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Nellie Deutsch: educators are more interested in e-learning and learning in general
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vivian forssman: Floyd's commnet on "sharing" is indeed important - I think we need to figure out how to promote open access within higher ed, including the continuing studies area
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Sue L.: perhaps we need to look at how people found out about the conference... I learned through SCOPE
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vivian forssman: through BCcampus - the weekly updates are always a good read on Saturday mornings
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Hmmm, too bad didn't think of that question for the survey Sue
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I got an invitation from CIDER, but lots of other people I know in several places would have liked to come. I did tell some of them, but none of them joined.
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glen: Most HE admin doesn't even know what a wiki is beyond what they read about the horrors of Wikipedia in the paper
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Sue L.: I feel the universities are sharing more now - it's easier to do so
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Peter West: From a business perspective - is it an issue of demand & supply? competing interests/products? etc.
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minhaaj: I must say that academics of a certain age are pretty unaware of cutting edge technologies
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Nellie Deutsch: does money drive most people in how and what they research?
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minhaaj: and that creates an inequilibrium of mental frequency between students and teachers
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Nellie Deutsch: doesn't money...
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glen: unaware and deeply suspicious
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Sue L.: I wondered what the lack of wiki work in the conference was due to
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minhaaj: hehe i saw that in tom's session glen
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Sue L.: CLOE behind doors!
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glen: printing out their emails
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vivian forssman: Given the public dollars that go into curriculum development, this is a policy issue (OER)
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I did some work on the Wiki and hope to over the next couple of weeks, but I'm always very busy with other important things at work too and I imagine time is a factor.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Sue - quit a bit of editing activity in the wiki
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Sue L.: it kills me that learning objects I've worked on there aren't freely available
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minhaaj: Yes we can caroliine
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): yes, sound good
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glen: Ownership maybe an issue for wiki contributions
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Sue L.: it's odd to be editing someone else's work... that's for sure
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Sometimes I found I had to just keep figuring out "what" to do in the technology to get to the right site and find the ways to do it.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Moodle wiki not the best
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glen: Who gets first author on the article
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): even recognition
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peter t: we have a wiki page on wikis that includes info on the 'philosophy of wikis' http://ltc.umanitoba.ca/wiki/Wikis
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glen: We need a different mindset aroung ownership
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glen: let it go
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Sue L.: so it's good that you used the wiki Sylvie and Terry! walked the talk
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peter t: "Research indicates that wikis go beyond technological innovations and related benefits and also offer a change of philosophy in relation to the knowledge creation process ... 'Wikis introduced groundbreaking innovations at the level of process, philosophy, and even sociology of such collaborative authoring' .. . 'Wikis offer a management philosophy that manages knowledge creation through evolution of norms and values rather than directives and incentives'"
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minhaaj: Could be more easier Sue
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Caroline Park: Peter , I'll go look at that
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vivian forssman: I would like to keep the wiki open - I ran out of time
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glen: I realize that is the system
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glen: but it really inhibits an enterprise such as this
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Nellie Deutsch: what about usin wikieducator?\
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minhaaj: Its collaborative Jo Ann
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Terumi: I assume collaborative work on wiki is for all - no ownership of an indivisual any more.
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Sue L.: I see the work on the wiki as a gift I'm giving the group (mispellings and all!)
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glen: Moodle wiki is a bad way to get introduced to a wiki
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Nellie Deutsch: but wikis are great ways of sharing
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minhaaj: Welll its for common could, you shouldnt be thinking about establishing ownership
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Good point -- lack of reward might be the real issue
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Nellie Deutsch: Most
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glen: first use leads to future use
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minhaaj: common good
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Floyd Tremblay: IP in this world needs to be well understood. I personally do not subscribe to overuse of ownership
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minhaaj: Yea i have been editing wikieducator. Its awesome
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minhaaj: and we could have larger audience too
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Used Moodle wiki so not dealing with passwords and
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): We can move and organize so it's much nicer
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Nellie Deutsch: did you hear me?
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minhaaj: yes nellie
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Nellie Deutsch: I am getting funny messages from Elluminate
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Nellie Deutsch: I do
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Nellie Deutsch: i am a moderator on wikieductor
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glen: Alot of K-12 teachers seem to prefer PB wiki
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peter t: where does SOF go from here?
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minhaaj: home peter
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glen: I use wikispaces
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): That's the big question Peter
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I liked the site, I just had to learni how to do it and feel comfortable and that took time.
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Nellie Deutsch: It's Canadian-based
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vivian forssman: so maybe the next step of this conference is to build a kind of wiki journal (if people can get over the ownership issue)
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Caroline Park: Nellie, I'd love to have your email address. I am starting a wiki research project on Moodle
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): We can create a forum for ongoing discussions - subscribe if you choose
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Sue L.: I'm hoping there is not a problem if after a little while, I move the one page I'm interested in to a more public space...."Canadian Elearning Landscape" so that it can be finished one day
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Nellie Deutsch: nelliemuller@email.phoenix.edu
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glen: @vivian I like the wikijournal
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Caroline Park: Thanks nellie
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vivian forssman: wikijournal could be a place to "publish" action research
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glen: get your own page on the wiki
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Nellie Deutsch: I will be happy to help, Caroline.
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glen: but have commo0n pages, linked
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Nellie Deutsch: that's a great idea, Vivian
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peter t: to keep momentum going I think we another activity or all will be forgotten
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Kelly Edmonds: I agree Peter
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Sue L.: definitely not!
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minhaaj: good idea peter
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minhaaj: let us stay in touch through some activity
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Nellie Deutsch: http://www.wikieducator.org/Main_Page
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minhaaj: maybe we can have a fortnight or weekly meeting on Wiziq and brush up and discuss on latest trends ?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Need to describe that "activity"
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Nellie Deutsch:
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vivian forssman: what about using BCcampus, eCampus Alberta, etc funding for getting people to "publish" into these wiki worlds?
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: JoAnn: I think we do need to have ways to connect -- and focus.
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minhaaj: It could be session like this Syliva
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minhaaj: could be newsletter, RSS, wiki anythng
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glen: Interesting that learning how to use blogs and wikis in a formal learning setting doesn't necessarily lead to personal adoption
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Kelly Edmonds: I think we need to go to another level ...
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minhaaj: How about Newsletter ?
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vivian forssman: I am using "publish" in quotes becuase I don't think action researcheres (practitioners) are prepared to write to the standards of academic journal publishing
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Sue L.: I like the CIDER sessions! Feel like I'm connecting with my people
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Nellie Deutsch: I think Cider should extend into discussions
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glen: I'd like to take in some Wize and Witty things but would have to travel
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: I want to be more involved with Cider
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Nellie Deutsch: I agree, Sue
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): http://cider.athabascau.ca/CIDERSessions/
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minhaaj: lol @ honorary canadian
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Nellie Deutsch: I mean to have synchronous discussions
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Sue L.: our emails are all available thruogh SCOPE... it doesn't stop anyone from getting us together again!
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Nellie Deutsch: I keep losing voice
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): like that metaphor Kelly. Internet is like a buffet
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peter t: hate to say it, but we need some people to lead this to move it forward
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Sue L.: what about a barbecue at my house... everyone's got to eat!
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Terumi: I rather not to have overlapping activities but have connected information about events happening in Canada
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Nellie Deutsch: most people are overwhelmed by so many new technologies
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Where do you live Sue L -- is it a virtual meal?
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Nellie Deutsch: but I see that as something that I want to know how to use for learning
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minhaaj: yea but there should be tutorials for atleast some basic web 2.0 tools like wikis, blogs and social networking websites
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Kelly Edmonds: I consider this a network with a potential intiative that could keep evolving
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glen: The mind map could be very useful because people can keep the larger context in view but able to drill down to areas of interest
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Peter West: I think you need a principal writer to produce a synthesis document and then establish a process to rapidly move the document to completion
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minhaaj: yea but we also have wikipedia that is grown up by individual contribution and thats free
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glen: More IT guys doesn't make elearning faster or better
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minhaaj: Paid people won't be as excited by this initiative as volunteers
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Nellie Deutsch: no, but instructors using e-learning technology would be great
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glen: Often IT is very scornful of educators using tech
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): I wonder if we can gather some $$ to get the writing job done
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minhaaj: We can do it ourself, if we could distribute the load ?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): No conference budget :-
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Nellie Deutsch: we could do it in a wiki
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Perhaps BCcampus can contribute
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Nellie Deutsch: so we can share the load
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): No prizes!
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minhaaj: yea no need to spend hiring a fulltime pro
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Nellie Deutsch: wikieducator has bountires and they pay
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Caroline Park: hahahaha
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): That is a gift, TErry. Thanks!
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Terumi: Could you set up donnation system via Amazon.com, for example. It's casual and seems simple.
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peter t: possible that UM LTC could contribute
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vivian forssman: Yes, we need a knowledge integrator - when I see how dollars get thrown at eCampus-style course development, surely we could influence this kind of funding capacity
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Caroline Park: Hey Peter's offering!!!
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Sue L.: @Jo Ann ... I live in North Bay, ON but am right now in Sri Lanka so until July the BBQ will have to be 'virtual'!
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glen: Virtual tipjar
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Nellie Deutsch: wikieducator not just any wiki
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Yay peter!
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Sharing the load is important
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Nellie Deutsch: a Canadian wiki
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Kelly Edmonds: Thansk for this interesting experience, everyone
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Nellie Deutsch: that's for our book
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Nellie Deutsch: your book
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Nellie Deutsch: thank you
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vivian forssman: Thanks Terry - this has been great!
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glen: Thanks for this Terry and Sylvia
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Caroline Park: Bravo!
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Sue L.: thank you Terry and Sylvia
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Rick Kenny: Bye all.
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Terumi: Thank you very much Terry, Sylvia, and all and good night!
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): and George
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Thanks everyone
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Kelly Edmonds: Have a great weekend
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Nellie Deutsch: i wil be in Victoria for 3 days at the end of July
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: A virtual meal sounds good Sue
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vivian forssman: heh Sylvia is there still enogh going on down at ETUG that I should com down (I am in Vancouver today)f
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann; Great work Sylvia -thanks
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Nellie Deutsch: thank yoiu
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Floyd Tremblay: Thanks, it has been and should continue to be great!
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann Great work Terry, Thanks again
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Moderator: Yes! Come on over to Emily Carr Vivian!
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vivian forssman: OK see you soon
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Moderator: @vivivan etug.pbwiki.com