Joined on May 13, 2008 at 8:46 AM
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Moderator (grainne.conole): ok will try and do my best!
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Moderator (grainne.conole): u trying to make me nervous George????
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minhaaj: Hi Terry, george, sylvia )
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minhaaj:
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Terry Anderson: Vivian - thanks for your contributions to the moodle forum- much appreciated
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Me: Hi everyone. BRB!
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minhaaj: lol we are pretty nice people grainne, george is scaring you
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Brian: Any idea when the recorded version of yesterday's seminar will be online?
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Moderator (George Siemens): Brain - I think it is already
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Moderator (grainne.conole): ok fine
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Moderator (grainne.conole): sounds good
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Moderator (grainne.conole): nope nothing that complicated!
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Moderator (George Siemens): were we to have read the paper??
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Moderator (George Siemens):
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Brian: George -Where would I klook for the recording?
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Terry Anderson: Happy Birthday George !!
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minhaaj: Ahh its George's birthday ?
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Moderator (George Siemens): and Happy B-Day to Terry
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Terry Anderson: Brian The recording is linked from the Moodle site where the earlier annoucnmeent was
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Moderator (George Siemens): we found out during planning of this even that we share the same b-day
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minhaaj: Oh happy bday both
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Moderator (George Siemens): in fact, if you put our images up side by side, you'll find we're almost twins
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minhaaj: Can someone get the cake before we start today's session ?
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Brian: Thanks Terry
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Terry Anderson: Yes, but who is the Evil twin?
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minhaaj: lol
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Moderator (grainne.conole): hhmm cake sounds good - its tea and cake time here BUT way too hot
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Moderator (George Siemens): that's for the audience to decide
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Moderator (grainne.conole): and yes we *can* do hot in the UK .... just not very often
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minhaaj: heheh since George's been scaring grainne, i guess its George
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Terry Anderson: I remember that movie :- You are more the Swartnagger type
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Moderator (George Siemens): hmm...i think i need about 6 more inches in height
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tsoaneswhite: All I have is a sponsorship screen, does anyone have anything else?
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Moderator (George Siemens): that's all we have currently on the slide deck
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minhaaj: He's only 6'2 George
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minhaaj: you are what 5'8 ?
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Moderator (George Siemens): 5'10
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Moderator (George Siemens): or so
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Moderator (George Siemens):
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Moderator (grainne.conole): george do i need to click off the "follow mderator' when i start or do u do that?
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minhaaj: hehe not bad
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minhaaj: atleast you are taller than tom cruise
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Moderator (grainne.conole): ok great so
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Moderator (grainne.conole): excellent goodness me!!!
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Terry Anderson: Multiplication of $0 is quite easy
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Moderator (grainne.conole): u spoil us "international" speakers
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Moderator (grainne.conole): yep u've got it terry
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Moderator (grainne.conole): silence!
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Moderator (grainne.conole): its like asking a question in class
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Terry Anderson: Thanks!
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Moderator (grainne.conole): back in 1 min
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minhaaj: Terry i would like to ask something regarding international students enrolling at athabasca university
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minhaaj: is there a possibility for international students to benefit from your knowledge formally through an admission?
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minhaaj: Oh sure
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Alexandra: Hi
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DebraH: twitter on George!
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Moderator (grainne.conole): back
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minhaaj: Hi debrah
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Moderator (George Siemens): Debra - i'm doing it for the revolution
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Moderator (George Siemens): or is it revulsion?
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Moderator (George Siemens): i always get those mixed up
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glen: Nice to see Scope using Twitter
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Moderator (grainne.conole): yep i am getting adicted to twitter....
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Moderator (grainne.conole): its fun at conferences and keeping tabs on colleagues work
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Moderator (grainne.conole): some very funny comments too
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DebraH: & to keep track of people after conferences!
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DebraH: hi minhaaj
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minhaaj: whats twitter? i'm missing on something ?
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Moderator (grainne.conole): www.twitter.com
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minhaaj: hmm
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peter t: university of manitoba
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Alexandra: I am from MET, UBC
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Terri Bateman: Royal Roads University - Victoria
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crogoza: U. of Manitoba
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Moderator (grainne.conole): I am from the open university in the UK
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DebraH: Athabasca U - based in Canmore, AB, but recently from Oz
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Terri Bateman: Oh, I just finished the MET program
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S. Lister: live in North Bay, Ontario... but currently in Sri Lanka (it's late here!)
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glen: Glen grassroots MB
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Me: Live at Lac le Jeune, British Columbia and work at BCcampus.ca
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Annie St-Jacques: U. Sainte-Anne, Halifax
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Gerry: Gerry Paille - Fort St. John BC - School District 60 and Thompson Rivers University (TRU)
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vivian forssman: George, thanks for coaching on my mike - I seem to have one that doesn'r work so I will have to be quiet (for a change).
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Me: Grainne's paper http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/file.php/56/Background_Reading/conole_international_perspectives_elearning.pdf
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Paul Stacey: Synthesis is a major challenge for creating some sense of order for the whole e-learning space.
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vivian forssman: While employed by SAIT in Calgary I happen to be in Vancouver today
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Moderator (grainne.conole): yep!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Hi Sylvia... I got your email and I am certainly interested in speaking with you
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Diego Leal: Hello there, everyone...
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Moderator (George Siemens): recording started...
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Selina: hello all
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Moderator (George Siemens): Yes
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Moderator (George Siemens): Hi Seline (and others)
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Paul Stacey: Nice paper, I like the themes and questions.
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Paul - yes, she nicely distilled the key research areas
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Moderator (George Siemens): pedagogy, technology organizational, contextual
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Unfortunately, the roles are changing faster than the individuals!!
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Moderator (George Siemens): combining and separating are core academic tasks
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Unfortunately, the roles are changing faster than the individuals!!
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Peter West to grainne.conole, George Siemens, Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie: I would appreciate receiving the link to the paper
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Moderator (George Siemens): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Contemporary-Perspectives-E-learning-Research-Flexible/dp/0415393949
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Moderator (George Siemens): link to Grainne's book
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Moderator (George Siemens): let me dig up the link to her paper for the conf
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/file.php/56/Background_Reading/conole_international_perspectives_elearning.pdf
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Peter Ball: already provided above by sylvia?
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Moderator (George Siemens): http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/course/view.php?id=56
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Moderator (George Siemens): scope session
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Moderator (George Siemens): scroll down, you'll find it under week 1 background reading
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Moderator (George Siemens): plus, while you're there, you can contribute to the converation
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glen: 2 shooting in the dark
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Gerry: Say the question again please.
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Moderator (George Siemens): select from the links above
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Moderator (George Siemens): just above the participant list
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: rats... I want C & D !!!
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DebraH: don't b greedy Wendy!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: tee heee
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DebraH:
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Moderator (grainne.conole): lol troube with binary scales
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DebraH: we shld suggest to Elluminate a slider!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: bring on the 9-pt likert scale!!!
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Peter Ball: a consensus in the middle
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Moderator (George Siemens): isn't that what you're doing?
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Moderator (George Siemens): heh
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: nice visual
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DebraH: too many conferences to attend
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Moderator (George Siemens): Debra, it's harder to leave when you live in canmore vs. winnipeg, yes?
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glen: need to drop eLearning it evokes a problematinc connection to distance ed, the red headed step child of institutional education
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: The joy of virtual conferences... no airline tickets
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Diego Leal: At least in Colombia, it's not that easy to find conferences in the area...
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Paul Stacey: Its interesting to look at these themes. Seems to me that we are seeing a Pan-World e-learning research agenda not a Pan-Canadian one.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: easier on the non-existent budget!
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Good thing we have online conferences, right Diego?
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crogoza: Agreed Paul
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: ummmm... Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada... apparently Canada ends at Toronto
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Peter Ball: # of conferences depends on their focus - research vs practicing vs vendor conferences
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Diego Leal: Also, it's difficult to find forward-thinking in them... It's usually a report aver the same things over and over again...
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DebraH: looove online conferences -George - I getto look at my own window & go walkingin the mts afterwards
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Diego - good point
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Gerry: Or get rid of the "monolythic system" all together.
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Debra - u sure you don't want to move to winnipeg? it's beautiful. almost like sydney
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vivian forssman: policy and strategy; staff development - it seems to boil down to longstanding models of faculty loading
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DebraH: & also for promotions & tenure!
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Moderator (George Siemens): Grainne will be pausing for questions soon
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Moderator (George Siemens): please post now
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Moderator (George Siemens): (or grab the mic when she pauses)
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Gerry: What's happening in the international e-learning standards world now?
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DebraH: I like the way reader response theory has now been adopted into media interactions
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): Here is the Amazon.ca link to Grainne's book http://www.amazon.ca/Contemporary-Perspective-E-Learning-Research-practice/dp/0415393949/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210695603&sr=8-3
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Gerry: Is "Canada" participating (e-learning standards) - I know some Canadians still are.
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Paul Stacey: I'm also thinking "choice" is a major factor. Learners are no longer held captive by the local institution that has traditionally served their catchement area. To what extent are learners and their choices becoming drivers of policy, pedagogy, technology, organization, etc.
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DebraH: intersting Q Paul!
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Moderator (George Siemens): soon Athabasca and OU will own the world <insert evil laughter>
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Gerry: LOL @ george
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DebraH: no surprise there george!
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vivian forssman: @george - only if they can get out of print!
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DebraH: (both yr comment & the laughter)
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Brian: Actually the publishers are trying to beat them to it. They are pushing their packaged courses online.
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DebraH: wow, Vivian - yikes!
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Diego Leal: @vivian LOL LOL
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DebraH: 1 of my ex-students is on ..
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Moderator (grainne.conole): Hi Paul!
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Moderator (grainne.conole): good question
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Gerry: I am thinking that once they make an institutional choice, they stick with that institution.
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Diego Leal: Then we need more innovative institutions, and learners with a different set of priorities, right?
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glen: How do you get around the fact that F2F is such a huge economic driver in any community. The existing infrastructure employs a lot of voters.
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Moderator (George Siemens): i love blackboard!
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Diego Leal: I mean, how many students today choose their college based on the use of ICT and the quality of discussion inside the institution? At least in Colombia, that's not happening.
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DebraH: @gerry - less so these days - esp w virtual Us etc
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DebraH: George - u need a life!
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Moderator (George Siemens): ECAR report from 2007 supports what Grainne's is saying
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Moderator (George Siemens): i.e. student use of technology
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Diego Leal: Cost and goodwill are the top decision factors here, I'd say...
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): It is also not clear to students what expectations and responsibilities to have.
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Moderator (George Siemens): i have yet to see a traditional university leapfrog anything
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Moderator (George Siemens): (oops, loud part quiet)
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minhaaj: George are you going to forward my question or i need to speak it ?
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Moderator (George Siemens): @minhaaj - if you have a mic, why don't you?
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minhaaj: What i have found missing in grainne's presentation is international participation and research contributions from countries. I was just talking to Terry and he told me that at athabasca doctoral program costs about $40K which is, pardon me, absurd. For an e-learning program its gross and i seriously doubt that anyone can explain the break up of $40k that will be spend on students in 3-4 years of Ph.D. Shouldnt international universities be open to international students specially when it costs a fraction of what a traditional university does?
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minhaaj: umm i still have to ?
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glen: something about F2F..party!!!!
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Gerry: @ DebraH - Yes but how do the students get their final credential - degree/certificate/diploma - I am thinking institutions are not yet receptive to allowing students to have courses from multiple source. Even our "open" institutions???
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): The death of 'single mode' DE institutions has been discussed in the litertaure for some years, but most open universities keep growing, as they have cost advantages.
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DebraH: yes @gerry - this admin issue is always the sticking point - even these days?!
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DebraH: sometimes even across campuses?!
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Diego Leal: @Gerry Good point. How "open" is "open", really?
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DebraH: & other studetns are saying I want to pay to NOT have to move countries or towns
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Paul Stacey: I'd suggest there is an opportunity to create a university targeted to global students.
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DebraH: there is the Artic U
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): There isn't clear evidence that e-learning is more cost effective, especially if government subsidies are removed - which raises the question of why some governments think e-learning should not be subsidized while F2F is.
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DebraH: & in EU stduetns can go from uni to uni choosing different courses
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minhaaj: I really found it unfair to have universities design requirements that would indirectly restrain international students from enrolling in open universities.
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M Power: WTO may have something to say about that
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minhaaj: WTO .. huh.
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Peter Ball: re: terry's comment - I guess the issue is what the affordances are
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vivian forssman: and accreditation
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M Power: Woirld Trade organisation
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crogoza to grainne.conole, George Siemens, Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie: What about the role of expertise
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minhaaj: i know M Power but i dont think its an organization that helps ppl honestly.
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Alexandra: I believe that electronically mediated course taking is looked somewhat inferior even by the universty which is offering the e-learning. I found this very upsetting
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M Power: minhaaj higher ed is increasingly becoming scrutinized by WTO
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minhaaj: so is the rest of the world M Power
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glen: see Shirky Here Comes Everybody
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Moderator (George Siemens): one draw back with those books is the lack of research...i.e. more about anecdotal or philosophical views
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Diego Leal: I fear that talking about the role of university ends up being a rethoric exercise. Very few administrators are interested in thinking about the role of the University in this new world (at least in Colombia)
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Moderator (George Siemens): which is an important aspect of change
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Moderator (George Siemens): David Weinberger
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Moderator (George Siemens): i see a continuum: conceptual, experimental, implementation
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Moderator (George Siemens): each stage is valuable
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Moderator (George Siemens): as long as we are aware of which stage we are functioning in
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Diego Leal: Again, the factors on which the administrators make decisions are not really tied (yet) to the impact of ICT, or the globalized society...
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peter t: Neal Postman: every technology has a hidden ideology
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DebraH: control vs accountability vs privacy vs choice
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Peter Ball: peter t - yes. ideology open or closed
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Gerry: Canadian privacy laws and personal info on S based servers
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Gerry: *US
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Peter Ball: their nature ... their ideology
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Moderator (George Siemens): ed tech is an aggregate community - i.e. we need to see what's happening in the individual fields that comprise ed tech
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Moderator (George Siemens): media, society, technology, educational research, etc
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DebraH: how muh is too much?
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vivian forssman: @george - and ed tech support models
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Diego Leal: @George Ed tech is kind of a "mash-up" community? :-D
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Debra - there is no too much
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): It is interesting that Canadian edubloggers have a world reputation for timely and often profound comments - but these are at what George refers to as conceptual. There is too little at the experimental stage, but a wealth at the implementation (and often not evalaited stage. - thus some of the motivation for this conference
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DebraH: yes Tery - my pres @ CNIE I had so many Qs that I didn't get to talk about this year's data analysis!
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DebraH: re blogs, wikis etc
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Peter Ball: I am guessing that the wealth at implementation is primarily annecdotal vice evidenced based
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Terry - i think this is an opportunity for educational researchers - i.e. to reach out to conceptual thinkers and use that as a basis for research
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Moderator (George Siemens): what edubloggers talk about today, we see in conferences in 2-3 years
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DebraH: Grainne - this was my Q yesterday- how to make sure that we keep focus on the potentially sharp edge of the cutting edge in predictive research
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Moderator (George Siemens): and in publication in 4+ years
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Cathy Bray: I am in favour of "evidence-based" research (a motherhood issue) if the evidence is, say, archival analysis, reviews of blogs/wikis after the fact etc. I'm not sure if I am in favour of a double-blind experimental approach where students are concerned.
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Peter Ball: starting to get into the broader "learning" community - beyond the academic institutions
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Gerry: @ Debrah - just realized I was at your CNIE preso
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DebraH: @gerry - cos of "all the Qs" comment?
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Gerry: Yes
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Peter Ball: Cathy - I agree - qualitative is of value here
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DebraH: qualitative is esp useful in social networking research
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: so true
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Cathy Bray: what do we mean when we say "experiemental"?
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Moderator (George Siemens): i'm into liver-based learning and butt-based sitting
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DebraH: @Cathy Bray: living?
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Cathy Bray: sorry, debraH - I don't getchya?
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Paul Stacey: I'd love to see some ethnographic work done by tagging along with students as they are using technology.
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DebraH: I don't want visuals of your learning processes @george
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jo Ann Hammond: You are entering the subject of psychology -- "how do we cope?" I think the structures will improve and the ways of organizing information, designing courses, and making meaningful connections will be even more important. I think time management with students and faculty, including contracted instructors, like myself, will be crucial if we are not to have more burn out in e-learning. My 15 year old's multitasking has consequences. I really appreciate this conference as I'm wanting to keep current while I'm multi-tasking. Thanks Jo Ann
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DebraH: @Cathy Bray - sorry -flippant - I feel that just living is a constant experiemnt
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Debra - I think you are too dismissive. Perhaps a collab research project?
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matt to grainne.conole, George Siemens, Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie: I jumped into this from a twitter link. what's the event?
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DebraH: @george: that's me ... flippant & dismissive
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Debra - I was referring to your comment to mine - not to Cathy
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Moderator (George Siemens): i.e. you're disdain for my learning process
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DebraH: focus george!
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Moderator (George Siemens): @matt - i'll get you a link
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie) to matt: Welcome Matt! This is a presentation by Grainne Conole -- part of the Shaping Our Future conference. Will grab link for you
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Diego Leal: we need "bridge-builders" between areas...
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Moderator (George Siemens): @matt http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/course/view.php?id=56
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Moderator (George Siemens): we're about five minutes away from Q & A
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Moderator (George Siemens): please post here
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DebraH: Grainne - & what tweeks we might need to make for our e-contexts
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Moderator (George Siemens): or take the mic when Grainne pauses
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Moderator (George Siemens): go web 2.0
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Moderator (George Siemens): digital natives and immigrants
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minhaaj: hhe i like the terminologis digital natives and immigrants
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DebraH: perhaps because we are still at the "C" emergent stage, we are losing track of our mehtodological rigorous practices w/out yet having found or identified our context-specific tools & techniques
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Debra - interesting point - i'll forward to Grainne (or do you have a mic)
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DebraH: have mic
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Moderator (George Siemens): did you want to throw the comment to G?
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DebraH: k
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Diego Leal: Grainne, I have seen a different tensions.. I am/have been a practitioner, and I had the chance to be at the policy-maker level in my country. It was interesting to find out that we had/have to do a huge effort to organize a lot of things, because it's difficult to find support on the universities (the practitioners)..
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Alexandra: Do you find that by the time that your research is published, you find that the technology has changed so much that your paper is already out of date?
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glen: need a very speedy research method, Web 2.0 changes from month to month. current research practices take way too long. by the time you figure out the question we've moved on
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DebraH: gd point @gerry - I have a pile of potebntial papers that will nevr see the light of the screen
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Alexandra: Perhaps you need a new form of publishing your research paper; not traditional way?
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Selina: glen very good point. I think current research practices are an issue. But change is hard, especially as it is contrary to current academic practice.
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DebraH: sorry - glen's point aboe I was referring to
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): With Open Access publishing online the peer review, production and distribution process is sped up quite considerably at IRRODL.org we almost always publish less than one year from submission (if the paper is accepted!)
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minhaaj: good point terry.
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glen: @selina, change will be hard with lots of resistence, lots of vested interests in the existing framework
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jo Ann Hammond: I agree with "speedy" research that has used valid methodology. I think that Web 2.0 offers many people a voice, video viewing, and it presents an opportunity for more fair distribution. However finding material that one wants could be facilitated more in the future.
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jo Ann Hammond: (Jo Ann) Thanks I have to go now. I enjoyed this presentation.
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Moderator (George Siemens): thx for Joining Jo Ann
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Selina: @glen, I agree. I think this is a huge issue but if we are at this stage of development we have to include a working plan for changing attitudes.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Also have a seminar discussion at SCoPE Social Media - Benefits for researchers. Runs until May 18 http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/mod/forum/view.php?id=900
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DebraH: we have to practise developing "10 min slot"
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Peter Ball: internal consuling
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vivian forssman: policy - how do we effect the shift from investment in physical plant to supporting virtual environments - it is hard to name a virtuaal space with a major donor's name
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Moderator (George Siemens): good points on translating to each others language
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Cathy Bray: selina can you say more about the conflicts you see between research practice and academic practice?
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DebraH: @george - bit like the old chestnut of IDs speaking to "content experts"
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Moderator (grainne.conole): cant hear!
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Moderator (George Siemens): much better!
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Moderator (grainne.conole): great!
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Solveig Jakobsdottir: An example of a European project attempting to harness/promote some key studies on the impact of technology on learners and schools (primary level) is the STEPS project - http://steps-project.wikispaces.com/Project+overview
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Moderator (grainne.conole): yes - moving with the latest technology
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): Thanks for the link Solveig - nice to have your contribution from Iceland!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: flavour of the month... turns into a marketing session...
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DebraH: thx Solvieg - glad u made it in!
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Peter West: Interesting - the researcher-practioner interaction (and influence) challenges in education are identical to those experienced by the health sector (and likely other disciplines). Clearly, more work needs to be conducted to better understand the generics of effective knowledge exchange between stakeholders
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Peter Ball: surely we can use research in cognitive sciences and learning psychology that would be useful no matter the new technology - depends on the affordances.
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Solveig Jakobsdottir: Thanks for the invitation!
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glen: tech infrastructure changing fast, cloud computing coming fast
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DebraH: perhaps it's also time to do some overview collations of studies related to specific areas such as Uschi's
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): It is a common complaint in our filed about the amount of research that could be summarized as "here is what I am doing isn't it wonderful" Often it is wonderful but too often the practitionaires don't have the time or skill to effectively research their interventions- thus the need for parternships with professional researchers.
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Selina: @cathy, I think that it is being addressed somewhat with current research, but i think it's a major stumbling block over all. I'll use the term "legitimate" or "legitimizing" e-learning before the established academic schools. There is a concern between "degree.com" and "academic institution.com".
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Moderator (grainne.conole): yes! off to scotland!
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Brian: you were great Grainne
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Moderator (grainne.conole): thanks!
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Terri Bateman: Thank you!
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Selina: Thank you Grainne,
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Carry on in the SCoPE forums http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/course/view.php?id=56
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): Thanks Grainne and George!
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Peter Ball: thanks all
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Alexandra: Thank you for your excellent presentation, Grainne
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S. Lister: wonderful work, well done!
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DebraH: Thx all!! gret Grainne!
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Thank you! It was just excellent
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DebraH: great
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Diego Leal: Thank you all!
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Moderator (grainne.conole): Great thanks all - nice to "meet" u
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Alexandra: Thank you Geroge
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Yeah John!!!
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): Enjoy the long weekend - lots of time to contribute to the Forum (and have spring fun!)
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DebraH: oh yeah sure Geroge!
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glen: tnks George