Joined on May 12, 2008 at 8:44 AM
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Nellie Deutsch: Hi Haydn
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): I would apprecaite that support George, my multi tasking is not great!
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DiegoLeal: Hi there, Nellie!
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Nellie Deutsch: Haydn, we are the closest in time zone.
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Nellie Deutsch: HI Diego
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Nellie Deutsch: Hi Sylvia
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Moderator (eLearnspace): audio is great
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Nellie Deutsch: Hi Dolly
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Nellie Deutsch: the sound is perfect
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Nellie Deutsch: Yes, it must be a good time
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Richard Schwier: Hi everyone. Great sound in Saskatchewan, and a nice day here too.
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Nellie Deutsch: is it at the same time tomorrow?
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Nellie Deutsch: excelletn!
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Nellie Deutsch: 7 PM my time
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Haydn: Thanks - time suits me well - 5.00 p.m. in Wales
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Moderator (eLearnspace): yes
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Richard Schwier: Loud and clear here.
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Nellie Deutsch: how do the presenters feel about people chatting in the text box during the session?
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Haydn: Yes can hear you fine Minhaaj
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minhaaj: Thanks
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minhaaj: 8:48 pm
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minhaaj: its ok, isn't inconvenient
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minhaaj: hahah we sleep pretty late
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ines cambiasso: Ines EFL programme evaluator for the ministry of education
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Me: Hello everyone!
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DiegoLeal: Hi there, Sylvia!
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Me: Diego! Great to see you
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Nellie Deutsch: I use blended learning; Moodle with all of my EFL classes
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DiegoLeal: Same here! Long time no see.. I've been kind of MIA the last weeks..
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Nellie Deutsch: How do the presenters feel about people chatting in the text box during the session?
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ines cambiasso: ines: Hola diego trabajan con distance learning
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Nellie Deutsch: Hola, Ines
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ines cambiasso: Ines: Hola Nellie
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Haydn: Hi Nellie, just before you signed in George was telling Terry he would summarise stuff from the comments box and feed relevant stuff to him as part of the Q&A
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Nellie Deutsch: thank you, Haydn
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Nellie Deutsch: I just got my coffee
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Stephen Downes: Hiya
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DebraH: Is this session being recorded?
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Nellie Deutsch: yes, it's recorded
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minhaaj: Yea i think so debrah
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DebraH: thx
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Nellie Deutsch: great way to get ot know each other
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DiegoLeal: Hiya Stephen!
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Stephen Downes: Diego! Hi!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: great picture!
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Stephen Downes: Hockey is Us
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Jean Dugo: Go Blackhawks
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Jean Dugo: What is the Scope URL?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca
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minhaaj: http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/course/view.php?id=56 <== conference URL if you were talking about that
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Direct link to the conference http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/course/view.php?id=56
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vaughan smith: True enough Peter!
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Stephen Downes: Hm... how much of *anything* can stand up to 'evidence based' -- remember, the requirement for 'evidence-based' is what brought us global warming scepticism
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Stephen Downes: we need to ask what would count as evidence to begin with
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dbhasin: Hi all of you, this is Dolly Bhasin from Delhi, India
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minhaaj: welcome dbhasin
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DebraH: And also Stephen, how "prospective" the evidence can be & still be accepted
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Nellie Deutsch: Sylvia, what is the URL for this session?
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Moderator (George Siemens): Stephen & others - I'll forward questions to Terry once he pauses
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Sylvia.. Terry mentioned that the paper was available on SCope... can you post the URL here?
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Nellie Deutsch: Sylvia, some of my firiends would like to come into the session
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Sure...just a sec
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Nellie Deutsch:
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: sorry ... got it now!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/file.php/56/Background_Reading/Pan_Canadian_E-Learning_Research_Agenda.pdf
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Stephen Downes: What constitutes 'collective' ?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Wendy, you're fast. I'll have to come up with a prize!
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Stephen Downes: agreed - more than just researchers
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glen: Hard science proceeds from a theoretical basis. Do we have adequate theories that explain what is happening in eLearning and can be used to direct "hard science" research?
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DebraH: and how can it be "collected"?
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Stephen Downes: collective... as compared to network?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Nellie, friends are welcome
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minhaaj: by setting up a forum debrah
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Peter Ball: the investigative practitioner
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Stephen Downes: : lurves backchannels
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Haydn: Glen - Shouldn't theories emerge from practice, 'hard'science only has theories because someone begun to theorise from practice earlier in the process!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I'll settle for research funding, Sylvia!
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Oops, Nellie I didn't see your ? re URL http://tinyurl.com/55nysa
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DebraH: my concern about cognate groupings of agenda is that the interesting ones might be the ones that don't fit into the categories established and that these might then fall by the wayside
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Nellie Deutsch: thank you. I will get to them
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: So true, DebraH
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glen: @Hayden I agree and that should be a starting point for this exercise.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie) to Catherine Fichten 2: Catherine! So glad you made it. Phoned your home number this a.m. I think (this is a private note)
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Stephen Downes: problem: adapting to attract sufficient funding means adapting to possibly incorrect scientific beliefs of funders
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DebraH: the basis of my concern, Stephen
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Nellie Deutsch: Hi Javed
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GinaB-COTR: maybe we need to 'crowdsource' the research?
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Stephen & DebraH: the selling of our collective souls to keep the lights on!
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Javed Alam: hi nellie
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Nellie Deutsch: what about qualitative?
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minhaaj: I guess Haydn said it.
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vivian forssman: another theme that should be considered in this topic is org culture issues - for all the existing research and evidence-based practice, educational leadership seems to be less than engaged in these topics - maybe we also need a communications plan
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dbhasin64: Hi Javed and Nellie
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Nellie Deutsch: Hi Dolly, great to see you here'
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Javed Alam: hi dolly
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Moderator (George Siemens): Vivian - awareness of research is important. partly due to closed nature of publiction, research doesn't move beyond small groups
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Haydn: Vivian is right - the move from academics on their own in a lecturer context to a collaberative course development model, might have a huge benefit for learners - but a disbenefit for the academic who feels it as a loss of power
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Stephen Downes: Haythornthwaite, C. (in preparation, 2009). Distributed Knowledge, Practice and Technology. Rotterdam: Sense Publishers.
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DebraH: alternatively, George, there also needs to be a means of more widely disseminating the open sites to less "networked" colleagues & policy-makers
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glen: I agree that one of the main impediments to elearning is cultural
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Stephen Downes: oops, sorry, wrong reference - trying to find a proper refererence with link...
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Nellie Deutsch: I am very interested in collaborative reseach among different countries
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minhaaj: Communication online is prone to misunderstanding. The issue intensifies when looked upon in cultural context
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Debra - if the reason for being "less networked" is due to lack of access to technology, then yes
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Nellie Deutsch: global e-learning
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Haydn: And the biggest impact to achieve change is getting management commitment, and combining it with a strong rationale for moving learning forward - but that's may day job - the reseacrh bit is the fun
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vivian forssman: it has been really interrsting for me in the pasty year to be part of a "Deans Council". Very seldom do the topics of e-larning and the tactics of technology-enabled curriuclum development ever hit the radar. Discussion is focused on enrolment strategy/tactics, financial management and bricks-andmortar capital investment. No e-elearning.
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Nellie Deutsch: we need to use e-learning t to learn about it
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Stephen Downes: Anyhow, here's the whole pahe of Haythornwaite publications - zero links, though - which is frustrating .... http://www.cii.uiuc.edu/research.php?link=8
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glen: @nellie qualitative is my main interest as well. We need to know what elearning means to people, professionals and participants. There is a disconnect there.
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Moderator (George Siemens): If the reason for lack of network is due to people not being aware of, or participating in, existing networks, then the issue is one of desire/motivation on the part of the "non-networked" person
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GinaB-COTR: e-learning changes so fast. it seems that if a lot of time is spent on creating a 'research agenda' the research foci resulting will be out of date...?
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dbhasin64: I have been working on research of elearning for capacity development for industry, ebusiness and eGovernance
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Nellie Deutsch: according to Terry research based excludes qualitative research
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NergizK: When I leave the room now, can I still listen to/ see the complete presentation recording?
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DebraH: me too Nellie! I'm hoping this pan-Canadian agenda can help bring more countries into thinking about common & distinctive areas of interest
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minhaaj: I think if e-learning has to evolve, it should be open for students all over the world.
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Moderator (George Siemens): yes, you should be able to
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Moderator (George Siemens): i.e. grab the recording
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Haydn: Nellie, I thought Terry said he was using a wider view of reseacrh based - which would include qualititve
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minhaaj: Pan-canadian research agenda should incorporate international brains and students in universities too.
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Nellie Deutsch: Well, I know Canadians are very open minded to diversity so I am hoping elearning will be borderless
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Haydn: At least I hope he did, as knowing what is happening (counting) without knowing why (values/culture) - would be pretty useless.
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Mark A.M. Kramer: I am conducting a "hybrid-Delphi" study
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dbhasin64: use Knowledge management as base to connect the industry, academics and the application to knowledge and skills required
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minhaaj: Nellie that can be evaluated only in terms of statistics from canadian universities accepting international students in e-learning programs
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Mark A.M. Kramer: www.mamk.research-update.info = My Hybrid Delphi - Research
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Stephen Downes: Axel Bruns... http://distributedcreativity.typepad.com/idc_texts/2005/11/some_explorator.html
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DebraH: he's an excllent creative thinker too
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Thank you Stephen for posting the URLs
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Nellie Deutsch: I study with the UOP and although it is a US Univerisity, it is open to "all" learners worldwide
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GinaB-COTR: (only the wealthy)
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minhaaj: did you check out fees Nellie ?
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Nellie Deutsch: maybe we can form an international group
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minhaaj: i applied for doctoral program there, guess how much do they charge ?
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Nellie Deutsch: I pay them. LOL
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minhaaj: 34K is simply astronomical in some countries when it comes to currency exchange FYI
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Nellie Deutsch: $32,000 for a doctorate
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DebraH: I was at CNIE
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Irwin: reused manuscripts
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Moderator (George Siemens): Grainne - I thought you posted that
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: this produsage approach fits with much of the online communities work I am working on now
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minhaaj: thats hillarious Nellie
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sleslie: oh please god, don't let 'produsage' become a common coinage
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Nellie Deutsch: Let's talk about it, later, minhaaj
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minhaaj: sure Nellie.
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Nellie Deutsch: send me an email
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Nellie Deutsch: my email appears next to my name
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minhaaj: i am sorry i can't see it.
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Nellie Deutsch: hover your mouse over my name
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Moderator (George Siemens): @sleslie - heh. We should set up a panel to invent and vet new buzzwords
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Stephen Downes: Well that's a great slide - the Bruns slide - but now a pretty significant question is, what is preventing us *now* from adopting this approach as a community - as it is based basically on voluntary participation?
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minhaaj: nothing. just your nick Nellie
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David Porter: Absolutely the right question, Stephen.
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Nellie Deutsch: nelliemuller@email.phoenix.edu
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glen: Is there a Diigo group for this conf?
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minhaaj: I got a call from UOP and we talked about an hour. The guy was really nice but even he didnt know about UOP
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minhaaj: thx nellie. do you use some messenger ?
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Nellie Deutsch: I will explain things if you wish, Minhaaj
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Moderator (George Siemens): @glen - no, nothing set up yet
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): @glen not yet I don't think sof2008
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Nellie Deutsch: who is Diane?
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Stephen Downes: Lauirillard... nothing to say
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DebraH: mac glitches again Terrry?
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Stephen Downes: *giggle*
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Haydn: Works for the Uk government - in education
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Nellie Deutsch: thanks, Haydn
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Haydn: Be the first time ever if she did have nothing to say - to be fair, she is always interesting
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: anecdotal evidence only: most produsage is being done by ed tech and instructional design folks who aren't part of traditional "research" support provided by universities
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Stephen Downes: Here's a question: *could* the produsage approach work in the Canadian system?
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Stephen Downes: or are there structural barriers preventing it?
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Haydn: Though she was better at great ideas when working for the Open Uni than in Government - seems to happen doesn't it Grainne
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glen: useing saf2008 tag?
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Nellie Deutsch: are researchers waiting for funding or are they going ahead regardless?
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Nellie... I just read your SCOPE post... I too am interested in the same, and am doing doctorate research on it
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I am forging ahead, hoping the money will follow
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Nellie Deutsch: thank you, let's get together, Wendy
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: yes
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Moderator (George Siemens): likely "only developed country" is more accurate
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sleslie: "the only country *in the world*???"
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DiegoLeal: @Nellie I would say, in a large amount, they're depend on funding...
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sleslie: only *developed* country?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): @glen SOF2008 (for shaping our future) Just checking out diigo now
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vivian forssman: TeleLearning never connected all the disparate pieces - we really should do a lessons learned so we don't repeat mistakes - but we need to better understand the mistakes. For example, in the threads over the last few days, TLNCE is deemed to be just Virutal U - I was on a project "educaitng the educators" but those themes were in the background. Tony Bates did all that policy stuff - these types of themes need to be reinvigorated.
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DiegoLeal: @Nellie That could be one of the structural barriers Stephen was asking about..
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Stephen Downes: I want to see the Tuvalu research program...
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Haydn: Michael Hotrum's point is interesting. I notice that the ALT conference in the UK is becoming much more academic than it was - leaving some of the learning technologists who are doers not academics have less contribution than once they might. I guess there is a balance to be made in this area - as Terry said - funding is a key issue, the IDs and Techis aren't funded for reseacrh.
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Nellie Deutsch: why wait for governments to take the initiatives?
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Mark A.M. Kramer: What about everyone here? Why don't you start the Canadian "Research Program"?
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Moderator (George Siemens): Nellie - the problem, especially for researchers, is funding
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Moderator (George Siemens): i.e. funding is what gets attention
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glen: Canada has lots of intraprovincial issues as well.
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Peter Ball: Who has the lead on workplace learning - federal or provincial? If federal, using a focus of workplace vice academic (K-12 + tertiary) this may overcome structural barriers.
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Mark A.M. Kramer: You have support fro Austria!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: George... chicken...egg
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Stephen Downes: well... I like the "let's do it anyway" approach...
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Nellie Deutsch: I have given up on getting any support from Israel
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DebraH: is it possible to get this agenda development funded by SSHRS?
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Javed Alam: nellie here is my courses voicethread
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Javed Alam: http://voicethread.com/share/124542/
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Stephen - I do too. But, higher ed is not geared for "let's do it anyway"
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Moderator (George Siemens):
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Stephen Downes: true, george
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Anyone here heading to CSSE in Vancouver at the end of the month???
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Stephen Downes: That si a good point...
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Nellie Deutsch: are HE instructors interested in giving their F2f power to e-learning?
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glen: Agreed- academic culture may be one of the impediments
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Me to Michael!!!
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Javed Alam: not really
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: too
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Javed Alam: I am a teacher
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Javed Alam: it is the technology
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Javed Alam: some of it is not ready for prime time
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Nellie Deutsch: thank you
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I've been hard-pressed to convince profs in HE thate-learning can be as effective as F2F
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Stephen Downes: This was an interesting point -- the people who are able to do the reserach are the people who are able to apply for funding and win funding to do that research - the rest of the people have to do it on their own time (which is basically what I doid for many years)
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Javed Alam: I just finished teaching my first online course I see some holes in the actual perception and what technology can actually provide
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Nellie Deutsch: thank you, Javed.
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Moderator (George Siemens): without threatening to burn down the castle, we've had a breakdown in the notion of expertise over the last few decades (centuries?)
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Stephen Downes: Do we want our reserachers to be selected by their ability to win funding?
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Moderator (George Siemens): wonder if we're at a similar point in research
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Nellie Deutsch: no one considers education as important as health
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: True, Javed... "we" expect technology to be perfect and for it to fit our needs, rather than perhaps making our delivery fit the technology
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Stephen Downes: It's my job
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Stephen Downes: heh
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Went out to find the TLNCE archives http://wildcat.iat.sfu.ca/
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Bill Egnatoff: Use the poll (check mark)
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DebraH: I wish, Terry!!
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Valerie Irvine: it's technically 40/40/20, but we all know it's more than 40...
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Stephen Downes: No, the smiley faces disappear after a second or two
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Richard Witham: we're just not awake
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Rory McGreal: Terry is not counting the $m s that are being spent by the US military on training research, especially sims and gaming
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dbhasin64: I believe that the industry should fund the research
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: as an ID assisting faculty in use of ed tech I have to push for them to include an eval process so we can at least get some evidence based research; insight - instructors are not interested in research into pedagogy - they are interested in their subject area for reserach
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: 60% of my "SPARE" time
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Stephen Downes: Good point Rory - lots of talk about here about e-learning in the military
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Rory - the challenge with that research is that it doesn't see the light of day
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Moderator (George Siemens): or, more accurately, often does not see light of day
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: same to me Wendy
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Stephen Downes: Yeah... right, I'm under the radar
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Stephen Downes: saheesh
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vivian forssman: the reason you are not getting "e-learning research" response is that many of us are practitioners, and perhaps just don't have the mandate to research and publish
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Nellie Deutsch: excellent points, Michael
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Rory McGreal: The new emphasis on ed games started with the US military (as ddid the internet). So it does eventually get out.
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Stephen - referring to US military, not your work
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Peter Ball: Much of the US mil research includes reports from industry that they pay for ...
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bonita: I'm with Vivian on this - we are practitioners
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Richard Schwier: Most academics would like to devote 60% of time to research, but must divide their attention among many competing responsibilities. If you asked how many devoted 30-40% to research, I'm guessing you'd see a lot more smiley faces.
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Moderator (George Siemens): you're fairly public, it would appear
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Dave Dumaresq: or implementors
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Stephen Downes: @George - terry said NRC reserach is under the radar
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glen: Need for open access research which is a problem for a lot of the collective knowledge that gets trapped in silos.
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Moderator (George Siemens): ah, oops. sorry
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GinaB-COTR: needs to be an easier,more inclusive way for practitioners to share results
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Nellie Deutsch: I will be researching instructor use of technology
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Bonnie Skaalid: design studies are also very time consuming and fraught with barriers
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Moderator (George Siemens): quick, memorize this slide
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Moderator (George Siemens): there will be a quiz
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Javed Alam: nellie i can give you my use
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glen: got iot!
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DebraH: u 1st George
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DebraH: we'll quiz u l8r
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DebraH:
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Moderator (George Siemens): i'm ready
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Richard Schwier: @george Ha! Okay, I've got it.
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Nellie Deutsch: Wendy, I'm glad.
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): @GinaB-COTR exactly! Share and dialogue
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Moderator (George Siemens): i have a printed copy of terry's slides
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Annie St-Jacques: I find it particularly interesting that the first and only distance education PH. D. program in Canada is slated to greet its first students in August (Athabaska U). Isn't it time? !!!
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: I suggest that every field of study (discipline) should have a section of their research devoted to the teaching and learning process; we are seeing this in the health disciplines
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Nellie Deutsch: Wendy, what's your email?
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GinaB-COTR: ah, the coffee table analogy
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Moderator (George Siemens): i'm currently hearing "knowledge mobilization" as the new buzzword
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DebraH: on that line George - will Terry have a bibliio @ the end?
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): @DebraH if not I'll make one
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DebraH: thx
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Stephen Downes: a variation on 'knowledge mobilization' is 'knowledge translation' (same concept, depending on whether your military or corporate)
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Debra, no, but I can ask Terry if he has one availalbe
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Thanks, Slyvia, that will be very helpful
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DebraH: & knowledge interpretation
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Moderator (George Siemens): the notion of mobilization/translations gives me a mild rash
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DebraH: no visuals pls george!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: HA, George... I feel your pain!!!
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glen: what is the metric for "learning"?
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Stephen Downes: yeah me too
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Moderator (George Siemens): I have pictures. I'll upload to flickr - new, rash images!
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Stephen Downes: well glen that's one of the issues
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GinaB-COTR: :-D
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Moderator (George Siemens): ok, wait, i don't
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Rory McGreal: Terry, CS is conspicuous by its absence from your list.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier to Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: I've been TRYING to do work with CCL/HLKC
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Javed Alam: @nellie when do you start your dissertation
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Stephen Downes: philosophy is missing as well
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vivian forssman: In the Canadian community, who else is participating in Iris Geva-May (SFU) study of e-learning policy in higher ed?
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Javed Alam: engineering?
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Vivian... tell us more!
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): @glen and others I just created a diigo group but I'm not very familiar with how it works! http://groups.diigo.com/groups/SOF2008
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glen: well Stephen, what is the answer?
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Moderator (George Siemens): Rory, Stephen - agreed. We need broader discussion from related fields. sAw a great presentation on communication theory and role in education
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Stephen Downes: right - telelearning was closed - major weakness
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Heather Ross: I think that a lack of research funding in the area of design outside of universities is a hinderence to research on teaching and learning outside of the university setting (i.e. what about K-12 and colleges).
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Stephen Downes: right - fund the network, not 'winners' and 'losers'
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vivian forssman: Policy and culture focus - supposedly 40 higher ed institutes are part of this - I am at SAIT - we should all get on the bandwagon. Unforunately this study has no context in the e-learning issues - it is only interested in policy, but it provides an interesting filter.
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Moderator (George Siemens): Wonder if educational research's role isn't at least partly about finding a way to get others fields to connect
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GinaB-COTR: @ Stephen: how do you fund the network?
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DebraH: design cf instructed learning cf teaching cf individual learning
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Moderator (George Siemens): i.e. draw on their quant/qual work...and integrate approprirately into academic context
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Nellie Deutsch: Javed: after my summer residency (US) in July
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Hear hear!!!
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Stephen Downes: @Gina - that's a good question -- but there are models, eg Jisc, EdNA
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Javed Alam: @nellie where would you be in US?
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: our faculty of extension is moving is evolving into a scholarship of engagement mode; we will be working directly w intra and extra community in our reserach activities
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DebraH: wld b good terry to have a venue to see who is using/expert in what research methodologies
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Alec Couros: yes, yes we do
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Nellie Deutsch: Arlington, Virgiania
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Nellie Deutsch: sorry, Virginia
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Javed Alam: that is almost DC
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Nellie Deutsch: Yes, it is, Javed.
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Nellie Deutsch: walking distance from the White House
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Javed Alam: I am in Youngstown, about 300 miles east
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: publish or perish
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Moderator (George Siemens): storm the castles!!!
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sleslie: <poke>so stephen, does that mean we should take NRC's elearning research funding and spread it across the network </poke>
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Moderator (George Siemens): how much research can we do outside of formal funding?
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Nellie Deutsch: are we going to wait for the funds or go ahead without it?
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DebraH: the problem w cntinuing to this all of the sides of our desks George is that it isn't recognised pan-canadian-ly - unless we can promote our collective approach
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Stephen Downes: yeah... but terry., do we really want to be chasing "retraining" money/...?
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: we're too busy funding research that idenitfies we need more funding
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Nellie Deutsch: what about corporate funding?
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Javed Alam: In US DOE is funding head start not much elearning
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Wendy
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GinaB-COTR: all us practitioners are 'doing' research... the question is how to collect it?
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Nellie Deutsch: exactly
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Alec Couros: corporate funding is OK, but rarely devoid of corporate agendas ... i know what M$ wants to hear and what they will fund, for instance.
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Javed Alam: M$ means uase their software
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Nellie Deutsch: Are governments interested in funding elearning?
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Nellie Deutsch: why would they be interested?
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Javed Alam: I had some funding from them long time ago all in form free MS software licenses
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dbhasin64: they should be interested because there is a dire need for capacity devellopment
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DiegoLeal: @Nellie It depends on who is in the government level...
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Rory McGreal: This federal govt is only interested in Science & Technology (and medical) research
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Javed Alam: I also had some NSF funding
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Heather Ross: @Nellie Deutsch - I think they are interested in funding some elearning (if they see it as practical), but I don't see them nearly as interested in funding any research on it.
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Javed Alam: and some from State of Ohio
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DiegoLeal: @Nellie Government support can be quite unstable...
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Peter Ball: Govt of NB is focussing on a "sustain" agenda that elearning is to be used to leverage this - LearnNB. Anyone (Stephen?) know more about this?
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Haydn: Nellie - I guess to enhance learning, though sadly most focus on costs (thinking that t3echnology is a cost reduction agent)
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Javed Alam: but it reaaly not enough
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Stephen Downes: LearnNB hasn't really broadcast a lot of its intents
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Stephen Downes: Me -- I am rather more interested in *learning* than *teaching*
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Nellie Deutsch: are HE U instructors interested in pedagogy?
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DebraH: that was my intent in my note above, Stephen
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Peter Ball: Considering they are competitors to other provinces ...?
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DiegoLeal: @Stephen COmpletely agree with that...
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Moderator (George Siemens): ouch
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Alec Couros: still does
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dbhasin64: very true - learning is learner focussed vs teaching which is teacher focussed
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Moderator (George Siemens): "get to the education faculty"
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Alec Couros: yea, that bites
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Moderator (George Siemens): i'm going to get t-shirts made with that logo
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Alec Couros: ha
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Javed Alam: stephen for that you need highly motivated students
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Nellie Deutsch: losing power is an issue
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DebraH: from Onion George?
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Haydn: The Higher Education Academy here is the UK has been pushing this agenda. But as Terry is saying there is still the fact that most Deans want discipline research.
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: thabnks terry
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peter t: are there any models for pan-canadian research agendas from other disciplines that work?
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Stephen Downes: I find most people are motivated - unless you are telling them what to do
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Alec Couros: we have a new president at our U, from Education ... looking forward to the next few years.
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dbhasin64: elearning is meant for LEARNERS no STUDENTS in conventional manner
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Javed Alam: unfortunately we still need teachers to seduce students in learning
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Haydn: In the UK at least there is starting to be funding for the Scholarship of Learning type research
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DiegoLeal: In our country, education faculty are quiet resistant to technology in education...
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Our students here prefer professors who teach over the professors who lecture... interesting distinction
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DiegoLeal: @dbhasin64 Agree...
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Stephen Downes: There is so much being out there in learning - my fear is that an 'e-learning agenda' will focus on the older methods of formal institutions and teaching & pedagogy
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: U of Alberta ed faculty is also resistant to ed tech; yet the K-12 teachers are not and there is where much action is happening - altho not researched
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DebraH: I think it depends on which Faclty'departmetn you're in Wendy - re recognition
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DebraH: forlearning-focused teaching
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Nellie Deutsch: there are interest groups
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bonita: exactly, Michael
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Alec Couros: @stephen after seeing so much instructivism at CNIE, I share your fear.
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Moderator (George Siemens): but what is it that they are actually fundint - i.e. examples of research projects?
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glen: got to get away from the notion that learning is in any way the exclusive domain of edcuation institutions
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Stephen Downes: CNIE is a classic example
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dbhasin64: My experimentation says if u use the learning approach to LARGE TALENT DEMAND areas in industry, you get a very focussed approach
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: @ Debra True ....I cross over many departments in my role as an Instructional Designer I see that
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DiegoLeal: what about a "learning research agenda" (without any e- involved)?
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peter t: we have a Canada Research Chair in E-Learning
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Haydn: Can someone translate K12 for me please
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DiegoLeal: Is not supposed technology to become "transparent" in the future, anyway?
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Kindergarten to 12
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Peter Ball: workplace learning research agenda
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DebraH: if we don't make the "e" specific then we lose the focus of the non-neutrality of tech in leanring
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Moderator (George Siemens): it's a Canadian term
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Haydn: Thanks Terry
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sleslie: so is one of the possible results of this conference a consensus on funding needs and potential models, and an open letter to Minister of Industry, CMEC, other responsible bodies asking them to start acting? or is that just a useless gesture?
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Alec Couros: We had Industry Canada funding from 1999 to 2002, nothing since.
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Nellie Deutsch: where is the funding going? What is popular in Canada?
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Mark A.M. Kramer: I have an example
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Alec Couros: @sleslie ... like your thinking
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DebraH: not "how" it works??!!
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: Ib spoke about broadening the definition of elearning in the scope discussion forum; we do ahve to look at everyhting from the learning filter and include new apporaches/technologies - new respnsibilities i.e. social networking, lifewide learning, informal learning,eportfolios and stsudent as learner throughout life
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Nellie Deutsch: NCLB is driving things in the US
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Moderator (George Siemens): @sleslie - good point
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Stephen Downes: Me - I think a good 'research agenda' in canada would be to get Canadian researchers to put their materials on the open internet, so we can collect them, read them, share them, riff on them... instead of continuing to publish in locked-down publications... I know Terry is very much in favour of this, and a leader in this... but most Canadian reserachers are not
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Moderator (George Siemens): week3 is devoted to a wiki to deal with "next steps" issues
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Javed Alam: what is nclb???
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vivian forssman: re: scott leslie's post - we need an open letter to Pres's of higher ed
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Moderator (George Siemens): and we can then look at ways to appeal to CMEC or others
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Alec Couros: @stephen I agree, and I deal with this daily ... so much opposition against open journals.
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Moderator (George Siemens): yes
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Alec Couros: I would agree on your last point, Terry.
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Nellie Deutsch:
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Moderator (George Siemens): heh, that's my second t-shirt "Common wealth of research"
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DebraH: common-poverty of research
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Stephen Downes: there's a large Canadian company?
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Sorry.. have to leave... faculty meeting to discuss the research we're doing!
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Moderator (George Siemens): ooh...Debra
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Moderator (George Siemens): harsh
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Nellie Deutsch: maybe it's cheaper outside of Canada
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Alec Couros: @Javed NCLB = No Child Left Behind
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Stephen - US ownded, based in Canada
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DebraH: as a semi-outsider perspective Gerorge
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: we have an eval unit at our faculty devoted to usability; word not getting out I guess
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Moderator (George Siemens): yes
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Stephen Downes: yes
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: yep
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Javed Alam: oh it is also called head-start
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Javed Alam: that program ate all the funding
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Mark A.M. Kramer: RIM = Large Canadian Company
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Nellie Deutsch: why don't researchers apply for funding collaboratively?
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Mark A.M. Kramer: We are doing research for RIM
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Alec Couros: yikes
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Ray Vafa to Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: Are we archiving this session?
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Ray - yes
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Nellie Deutsch: I think Ontario and BC has many K-12 e-learning programs
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Stephen Downes: I was thinking RIM... they just announced a big research project in Canada
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DebraH: comes back to th eproblem of non-academic researchers doing the studies Valerie
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): Roght RIM announced $150 million for venture capital development and research
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Valerie - great point
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Nellie Deutsch: I agree
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Alec Couros: Our best success has been with provincial funding.
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Javed Alam: yes $150m in funding for blackberry to match fund for iphone $100m
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Moderator (George Siemens): hopefully we can do something with that as a consequence of our conference
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Nellie Deutsch: collaboration is the key
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: re Nellie - but not evidence based reserach - certainly I cvan speak to Ontario; and most of the e-learning (from Ind learning Centre is LMS based)
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Stephen Downes: $150 million mobile research fund - http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5772049.html
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Ray Vafa to Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: George. Ray Vafa from York Univ. Toronto. First time here.. Raising hand to participate? Thanks
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vivian forssman: e-learning for what? for learning values? for economic values? for access values? we need to understand the pitch
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Alec Couros: @stephen thanks for the link
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Javed Alam: I think t-mobile will fund android from google
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Our Research with RIM is a rather smal project
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Nellie Deutsch: Michael: Don't you consider blended learning as e-learning
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Stephen Downes: biyt also in basic physics - http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080423.rminnolaz0423/GIStory/
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: yes nellie I do -
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Maybe we are doing this study as a pilot for other similar projects
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Nellie Deutsch: Ok
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Stephen Downes: (there was a story - I can't find it - they just lured a major professor to come open a reserach lab)
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Ray Vafa to Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: Thanks "ll contact you lateer.
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Nellie Deutsch: I think power is in groupwork
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Ray - great - thx
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grainne.conole: good session terry/george@
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Moderator (George Siemens): whining is fun, though
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Nellie Deutsch: let's work together
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Moderator (George Siemens): grainne - do you have the link to your cloudlets?
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grainne.conole: that's not fighting talk george!!
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Haydn: Yep, really good - Sorry I'll miss you tomorrow Grainne. See you all next week or on the Moodle site
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Peter Ball: wining and cheese is better
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grainne.conole: cloudworks.open.ac.uk
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Moderator (George Siemens): oops, sorry
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Moderator (George Siemens): thx
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Richard Schwier: Thanks Terry, George, Sylvia, Nellie
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DebraH: wining w/o the h is better Gerorge
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): See everyone back in the asynchronous forums http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/course/view.php?id=56
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Moderator (George Siemens): i was talking about it...couldn't find the link
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grainne.conole: wine and cheese? isnt it 9/10 am your end!!!!
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Alec Couros: Thanks everyone, great way to start off.
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Stephen Downes: Good discussion, Terry
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DebraH: & the biblio Sylvia?
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Nellie Deutsch: because I do, too
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Moderator (George Siemens): makes for a good brkfst, doesn't it?
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grainne.conole: yes exciting possibilities terry
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grainne.conole: lol
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Nellie Deutsch: these issues are the same in Israel
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dbhasin64: until a vision and research deliverable is clear which should be to actually involve learners collaborative research is not so easy
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bonita: Excellent way to begin this conference - I hope we can continue this discussion.
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Richard Witham: good session
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Grainne Conole will join us tomorrow!
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DiegoLeal: Thank you, Terry/George/Everyone
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Thank you!
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Sue Fried: Thanks!
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rcjones: Thanks.
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Valerie Irvine: Thank you, Terry & George!
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vaughan smith: Great possibilities Terry.
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Nellie Deutsch: the session was excellent
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Michael Hotrum U Alberta: thanks to all esp george and Sylvia and terry
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Danke!
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Nellie Deutsch: thank you everyone
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tdonovan: The cloudworks site is listed as private beta - just an fyi -there is opportunity to request access
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Nellie Deutsch: Toda
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Tom: Thanks Terry
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Terri Bateman: Thanks Everyone
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ines cambiasso: INES:thank you all
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Merci!
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DebraH: thnx to all contributing!
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kriel: thank you
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Obrigado!
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Nellie Deutsch: the key is collaboration!
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glen: Thanks for getting this going.
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Raymond Guy: Great work!
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Mark A.M. Kramer: It is about LEARNING!
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Nellie Deutsch: worldwide
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Nellie Deutsch: Yes
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grainne.conole: yes @tdonovan its early days with cloudworks yet - very new work!
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grainne.conole: Hello!
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grainne.conole:
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): http://scope.lidc.sfu.ca/course/view.php?id=56
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grainne.conole: looking forward to the discussion tomorrow
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tdonovan: Thanks - I will write and take it from there, Tricia
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Stephen Downes: Need to have papers poested on open internet, no login please
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Excellent paper, Grainne
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DebraH: thx Geroge
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Ray Vafa to Terry Anderson, Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: Please announce session time in diferrent time zones. Thanks
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grainne.conole: thanks Sylvia!
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): 16:00 GMT
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Stephen Downes: (so I can link to them in my newsletter)
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grainne.conole: george do we need to check things out for tomorrow's session?
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glen: @downes agreed open access is crtical
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Stephen Downes: (You may have taken that approach... I'm just verifying)
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Alec Couros: yes, please.
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Nellie Deutsch: It could be added to the frontpage of the Moodle
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): think they are accessible for guest access
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Mark A.M. Kramer: It is not open
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DebraH: to link frm Stephen's newsletter - otherwise too many logins
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glen: bye!
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grainne.conole: yes!
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Stephen Downes: Need direct link, guest access isn't on
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grainne.conole: ok
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Nellie Deutsch: y
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Moderator (George Siemens): audio is great
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Moderator (Terry Anderson): Bye for now!!
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grainne.conole: outrageous!!
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Bye Terry.
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DiegoLeal: Bye everyone!
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dbhasin64: Thank you Terry & George
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Stephen Downes: Bye Terry
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DebraH: Geoerge the power junkie
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dbhasin64: Bye everyone
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Moderator (George Siemens): Debra - I'm trying to reform
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DebraH: bye all
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Mark A.M. Kramer: Have a great evening
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Gerry: Docs/background reading are open
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DebraH: yeah right, George1
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Ray Vafa to Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: George, the best no and time to call you today. Thanks
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Moderator (George Siemens):
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DebraH: pull the other 1 george
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grainne.conole: i know!
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grainne.conole: yes fab!
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grainne.conole: tough life
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grainne.conole: thanks!
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Moderator (George Siemens): yes
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Gerry: I just tried it - no problem with no authentication
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): I think you can directly acccess. Just did without logging in
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grainne.conole: no problem!
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grainne.conole: ok catch u tomorrow
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Ray Vafa to Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: George, can I call you today at your convenience?
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grainne.conole: bye!
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grainne.conole: bye
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Javed Alam: bye
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Ray Vafa to Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: Bye every one.
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Ray - 204-474-9618
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Ray Vafa to Sylvia Currie, George Siemens: Thanks G
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sleslie: oh great, always getting the boot at the end of the night!
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Moderator (George Siemens): @sleslie - yeah, but we invite you back tomoro
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Moderator (Sylvia Currie): Alright already. We're leaving! LOL I grabbed the text notes
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sleslie: yes, suprisingly