Joined on May 23, 2008 at 9:01 AM
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Gerry: Related to sharing/reuse - there are individual champions all over the place, but very few, if any institutions in Canada that are pushing formward on this.
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Gerry: Translation takes time.
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Terry Anderson: We are hoping that Tom Carey's presentation will go on Monday morning, and at least be recorded. We will announce time and details on the Moodle site.
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debraH: doesn't the concept of having an agenda facilitate these?
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): Students/Learners are the main unheard voice in e-learning.
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Gerry: Standards for K-12 Distributed Learning in BC: http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/dist_learning/documents/dl_standards.pdf
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Haydn: Rhona Sharpe would be the name George
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Haydn: Helen Beetham too I think
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Sue L.: K-12 Perspective missing?
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): I'd love to see students blog on their experience using technology for learning.
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Sue L.: all three tiers at once
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I agree
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Rick Kenny: Is that liek Educating Rita???
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Peter West: Interdisciplinary is essential - As is mulit-stakeholder
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Rick Kenny: Can youput the URL in the chat?
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): http://justus.randolph.name/methods
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Rick Kenny: Gratias
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Sue L.: @George, Can we get the resources cited added to the Wiki? Not all links have been provided in the presentation.
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): We'll be having Q&A in a minute so please put forward any questions you may have for George here in the chat
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rcjones: @ Paul: K12 student blogging - more about connections, than tech experience, but...http://thinwalls.edublogs.org/about/
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vivian forssman: question for george - how do we mobilise action research capacity for practitioners?
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glen: research is just one aspect of critical thinking, got to get away from thinking that it can be only conducted under special circumstances
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): Thanks rc
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Peter West: Align structures/formats with objectives (e.g., a community-of-practice that advances tools and techniques that encourage researcher-practitioner-policy maker to interact)
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Selina: can policy moved forward so that we start with grassroots then through collaborative networks connect to policy as well as the research?
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glen: participatory action research involves the "subjects" from the outset
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Sue L.: I'd like to see Pre-Service Teacher Programs take on the role of blessing teachers with the knowledge and understanding of the importance for in-class action research in their teaching profession once out in the schools.
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vivian forssman: how about we develop a simple action research for practitioners primer and distribute, as a start - in my instituiton there is a lack of understanding of what is action research
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Terry Anderson: In class action research needs to rewarded by schools and employers - otherwise it just effects innovators
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David Porter: Raise the profile. Quality is relative.
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Karen Smith: We don't seem to have any starting points for people. When neophites come into this environment, there is an expectation that your do it or you don't do it implying doing it well (or badly) but also implying that there is no apprenticeship into this instruction.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: so true, Rick
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debraH: action research & "traditional" research cf elearning research & mainstream
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David Porter: Maybe we need to lose the practioner / academic lebaleing
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Karen Smith: I agree with George in saying that the research element and the pedagogy element is critical.
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David Porter: *lableing
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David Porter: *labeling
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debraH: what about a collaborative manual online 4 all
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Sue L.: One would think that school boards, being concerned with good financial decisions (especially around technology) that they would encourage an action research approach from their teachers to help them make good decisions.
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Karen Smith: Hey, good idea.
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Gerry: And Terry's point is good - how do we get past the innovators?
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David Porter: How about "action researchers," or simply "researchers"
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Karen Smith: Easy now. I think the innovators started this.
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Rick Kenny: i should also mention that *time* is an issue for practitioners re. engaging in research. They don't get much of it for this purpose...
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Sue L.: @rick good point about lack of time... a definite reality
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debraH: @SueL -this kind of decision might not "fit" w the schol board agendas - depends on the board
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier:
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Gerry: Not sure that is true Karen - me coming from a small school district that has 2000 plus laptops in the hands of kids and teachers.
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vivian forssman: well debra h and I are going for dinner next week - this forum is creating new relationships
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David Porter: I think action research is an obligation of practice for practitioners as professionals. The time argument is a deflection.
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Sue L.: @gerry what research did the school board base their purchasing decision on?
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Haydn: Good point George, we really don't spend time doing this. I spend time encourage colleagues to engage with this practice based reseacrh, but so often I'm rushing on to supporting the next person and therefore not getting the rich interaction myself - that's why these last two weeks has been so good
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Sue L.: the funding is NEEDED!
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Peter West: It would be interesting to see an e-learning stakeholder map. (Useful on many levels - the least of which, ensuring that all stakeholders are represented in all activities)
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Gerry: http://www.prn.bc.ca/?page_id=59 Outlines what is happening.
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David Porter: Good idaes attract funding.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: preaching to the choir, George!!!!
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Terry Anderson: Funding attracts good ideas!
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Where ARE the policy makers????
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debraH: if we had the networks at the academic level, then we cld mentor grad students to help teacher-practitioners save time by acting as research assistants
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David Porter: It works the other way, terry. Really.
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Wendy - good question. We're not sure
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Sue L.: higher ed includes faculties of education which in turn affect k-12
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David Porter: @Terru. Especially at this point in time.
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Terry Anderson: ideas, activating them, implementing and funding all mutually dependent. In the absence of one, the others usually fail
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peter t: what about an approach similar to that taken by the initiators of the Capetown declaration - http://www.capetowndeclaration.org/ - maybe a Pan canadian research declaration?
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Haydn: Hi Sue, but teaching the teachers feels very different from working with younger students
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: @Sue... yes... that is MY perspective
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Researchers do not necessarily make "good" teachers...
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Karen Smith: I think we might use the professional development as in "how I was taught" with the particular emphasis in our research, on how we all learned about this.
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David Porter: @Terry. Agreed. Let's front some good ideas for a change instead of "leading" with our hands out.
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Terry Anderson: @Wendy, true but there isn't evidence that they make bad teachers either. Most meta analysis show no relationship between teaching and research quality.
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rcjones: @ Haydn: Teachers teaching teachers: http://teachersteachingteachers.org/?p=80
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glen: elarning PD f2f is bizare
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Peter West: (a declaration) or a manifesto - a powerful vehicle for bringing all stakeholders together to passionately (and aggressively) pursue involvement, action and solutions
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glen: Like eLearning f2f conferences
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David Porter: Good one, Glen.
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Vance: bingo, modeling is the key
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Gerry: Innovators from our high school - http://www.npss.prn.bc.ca/moodle/
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Terry Anderson: Agree David, I hope you (and others) will be leading with good ideas next week that we encorporate in our emergent agenda
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David Porter: Absolutely
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Johanne: @terry: scary that there isn`t a relationship between teaching and research quality!
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peter t: more on capetown approach - "The first concrete outcome of this meeting is the Cape Town Open Education Declaration. It is at once a statement of principle, a statement of strategy and a statement of commitment. It meant to spark dialogue, to inspire action and to help the open education movement grow."
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: fear, time, working outside the groove/box
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): Seems to me faculty like to learn from other faculty and an informal mentoring sharing model via online community provides some level of support.
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Peter W & @Peter t - it is a good model to pursue...maybe the outcome of our wiki work next week?
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Selina: one of my issues that I have found is the emotional component of online communication. It is possible to miscommunicate your emotions ie. coming across as angry instead of passionate (about a topic).
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David Porter: You're right Selina.
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Selina: I think this also keeps the need for F2F so people can build relationships and understanding.
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Selina: I don't mean all the time (just clarifying)
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Terry Anderson: Do you mean F2F or real time (with or without video and voice)
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David Porter: Making time is a professional obligation, no?
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Gerry: Depends on the staffing model too - we have a university based group that will not do Pro-D unless they are paid for every second they spend.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I train the professors in e-learning models and software... TIME, and fear
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Karen Smith: It's an expanded sense of self online. You have to be constantly reflecting about how any seemly non-costic phrase will be taken by others.
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Moderator (George Siemens): Good point, Heather - sometimes the advocates are not the practitioners
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Selina: hmmm. I meant F2F but if you cannot read the person, in general it can be problematic. Perhaps real time with video would exclude F2F
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David Porter: UOIT's faculty development model and associaed contracts might be a good model to look at for future.
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): I wonder how much of technology adoption by faculty is being driven by students?
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Moderator (George Siemens): @Paul - we're hoping our cohere survey will address that ques
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David Porter: Good one, Paul. That would cause fear, and hopefully allocation of TIME to learn.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I mentioned in one of the other sessions this week: caught up in the glitz of the tool, and forget the learning/teaching
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Gerry: @ George "advocates are not the practitioners" really good point
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debraH: @pul - I think it depends on the level - grad/UG & also the discipline - & whether they are or have kids
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: @dedra H and pul: and location
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Haydn: Our student research indicates the students expect the academic staff to be as technologically fluent as they are.
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Sue L.: yet industry seems to embracing elearning as a method for professional development.
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David Porter: @Gerry. Not always true.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I feel better... my doctoral research is on what grad students are doing/how they are learning via distance
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Terry Anderson: I wonder what Heather means by "evidence-based" we didn't get much dialogue on the concept on the Moodle forum.
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Grant Potter: Haydn: We are finding the same at our institution
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BonnieL: Heather, what motivators did you identify for faculty members to use e-learning? My apologies if you addressed that question already.
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debraH: @ wendy - true
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Selina: @Sue. You are right. i've seen it used to train in software in the business setting.
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Haydn: Certainly once one of our staff (our as you North American's say - faculty) uses podcasting or wikis students start demadning it from other staff.
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Gerry: @ David - true - just meant that it is much more authentic when the advocates are practitioners.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: interesting twist, though... my sample is with M.Ed. students
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debraH: wondering about the significance of Heather's graphic - do we have to exit to reach change?
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Moderator (Paul Stacey): @ Bonnie - Great observation. I think many faculty percieve technology as adding time/effort to their workload rather than reducing it.
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Haydn: Wendy - good luck our MEd students are far less technologically engaged than our undergrads
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: @ Haydn... exactly why I picked them
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Haydn: Well Wendy you most be very courageous
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David Porter: @Gerry. That I like. Some great folks who are both advocates and teachers have taught me lots over the last few years.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: or foolish....
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: I am a teacher myself, so I "get" BOTH SIDES
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Moderator (Heather): yes: fear factor is a problem - in particular teaching evaluations
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debraH: @george - & disinterst: "waht doe sit have to do w my discipline?"
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glen: teaching ICT to MEd students right now. Mostly it is a process of invitation
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Haydn: Yes Debra - and "when I use it the students say I could be doing it better"
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Haydn: Hi glen, do you mean at this moment or during this term??
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Haydn: If the former how are you doing it
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debraH: @haydn - true - & *then* comes the fear of failure factor
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Kathreen Riel: the fear may be rooted in professional identity and how competency is perceived by colleagues and students
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glen: @hyden both
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Sue L.: my online teaching has impacted the way I now teach in class...to the better I believe
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: @Kathreen... I agree
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glen: @skype chat on the other monitor
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Peter West: Other factors? what's-in-it-for-me factor
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debraH: @heather - small & marginalised - not mainstream part of institution
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Haydn: Ah so bringing them into this discussion - I was certainly going to use the recorded sessions to point students to.
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Gerry: Online tests - WebCT/Balckboard marked - seems to be of inititial interest to faculty.
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Gerry: Not the best motivation
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Here, some on-line are add-on course, so $$$$
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vivian forssman: motivation for faculty to be involved - BCcampus/eCampus Alberta grants help
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glen: @hyden final class project is action research proposal composed in Google docs.
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rcjones: My motivation? Incessant curiousity.
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Selina: lol rc. i'm there with you.
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Sue L.: I don't think we're ready to equate the online course preparation and delivery to a f2f course.
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Haydn: Ah, yes an apporach I use with the MEd's too.
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Peter West: Vlaue-driven motivation (preferred) vs. assessment-driven motivation
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: under-grad generation is consumer-driven... give me what I want
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Johanne: As an Instructional designer...continueous improvement of their class content seams to be a very good motivating argument to get teacher to get involve and learn to use the tools.
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Peter West: champion-stimulated (preferred) vs. evidence-based rationale
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: @Joanne ... agreed!
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Haydn: Thanks Heather
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BonnieL: Access works for Distance and Online education, but not really for on-campus education.
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Haydn: Joanne - I wish it was always so
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Sue L.: increase the access for students and the institute increases their revenue base?
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: In order to learn the how the technology can assist the pedagogy in my areas -- I had to spend money and much time -- reducing my income temporarily, but significantly. I think this is a problem with heavy teaching loads for faculty and K12 teachers. I think we need to promote financial support for learning within educational institutes and/or at least give teachers good continuing education or sabbatical leaves. I future years the training could also be integrrated more -- through online low cost classes to participants for upgrading purposes. Participants of e-learning continuing ed need to be given credit for their efforts. Some people are intrinsically motivated, but external motivators help too.
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Haydn: Yes Bonnie - my focus is blending on campus with less demand for distance (in the UK we leave that to the Open Univesity)
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: ugh
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BonnieL: Haydn, how do you define blending on campus - reduced face to face time?
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Selina: @ Bonnie, It can be used for special needs students and may even increase accessibility for those who would not otherwise be able to go on to post secondary.
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: Here, too, Heather!... seen as just ANOTHER thing forme to do
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BonnieL: Selina, yes, we certainly see those students in the Distance and Online courses across Canada.
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Terry Anderson: Thanks Heather and George. I have to run to CIDER session starting now - For those interested, Title: Assessing the quality of K-12 online content: A sample assessment rubric is being run as a free CIDER session when this session ends at https://sas.elluminate.com/m.jnlp?password=M.8B71B60F2931D029AC3837DC06B70D
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glen: clicker schmicker, students are already using backchannels
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Peter West: It would be interesting to have an e-learning 'challenge' (with the 'prize' being national profile, research $, etc.) - oriented towards profiling innovative tool and techniques
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Johanne: @Bonnie: In my experience blending may give more time for personnalized attention in most case.
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Haydn: Bonnie, the blend is something that the academics can determine - so we are not deterministic - less face to face would be one, but different use of face to face is probably more likely. Make the limited face to face time we have more useful due to the stuff online
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: When I am introducing more technology in Health Psychology, it is often intriging to my students and opens their world views.
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Gerry: Excellent!
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Sue L.: Thanks Heather and George... much appreciated!
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Thanks
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BonnieL: Thank you very much Heather, George.
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Selina: Thank you George and Heather
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Haydn: Yes anohter thoughful reflection, thanks all
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Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers: Jo Ann: Thanks
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Moderator (George Siemens): thanks all
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Wendy Kraglund-Gauthier: off to CIDER... toodles all, thanks all...excellnt stuff
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Rick Kenny: Bye all
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Kathreen Riel: very dynamic chat! WOW
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Moderator (Heather): Bye!
Left on May 23, 2008 at 10:01 AM